PHBII: Retraining?

[Wolfwood2]

While that covers the feats, it doesn't do anything to record how you got your skill ranks (important for some feats) or the order that you took your class levels in. For someone who's trying to a relatively even split of levels between two classes, this becomes important to figure out.

I'm not knocking the system as impossible, but it is a mess to integrate into an existing campaign. You almost have to have a level up log where you make a note of all the choices you made for the character at that level. You could probably come up with a one page sheet that would go over 10 levels, so most characters would only have 1-2 extra pages on them if you use this option. But your method is not sufficient for all characters, since it glosses over other level up choices beside feats.

Raymond

I think you're missing a very obvious solution.

Wing it.

And when in doubt, always decide in favor of the player. It's not supposed to be an exact rule, I think.

 

[FireLance]

Who says that adding these rules in DND is progress?

I consider it devolution.

Have you elaborated on your views in another thread? I find it fascinating that the addition of new optional rules could be considered a step backwards. If you don't like them, you don't have to use them, and your game is simply unchanged, not made worse.

 

[KarinsDad]

Have you elaborated on your views in another thread? I find it fascinating that the addition of new optional rules could be considered a step backwards. If you don't like them, you don't have to use them, and your game is simply unchanged, not made worse.

Unless one actually buys the book in which case "unnecessary rules bloat" becomes both a DM gaming decision and a waste of actual money.

 

[KarinsDad]

My concern has been the suspension of disbelief, which seems to be passe' in D&D. Everything is about what happens on the battlemat when the orcs come to call (or the half-dragon, half-demon, half-construct, half-elf...)

It suspends my disbelief when someone at one moment has the ability to do x, and then suddenly doesn't anymore. Yes, I know its a game. but paper and dice are only one part of the game. It's like suddenly everyone forgot the other part.

Alas, poor role-playing, I knew ye well. Now it is simply a game.

Precisely.

 

[ThirdWizard]

While that covers the feats, it doesn't do anything to record how you got your skill ranks (important for some feats) or the order that you took your class levels in.
Raymond

When I level up, I use a whole new character sheet. I find it interesting to be able to look back.

Not that I'll use retraining rules.

 

[Wolfwood2]

When I level up, I use a whole new character sheet. I find it interesting to be able to look back.

Not that I'll use retraining rules.

Well sure, the "Let a player complain about how he never uses that feat/skill and why should he be penalized for making a bad choice six months ago and he never uses that skill/feat anyway so you won't even be able to tell and can he please change it until the DM relents and lets him change it," rule is a fine and well-tested alternative.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Well sure, the "Let a player complain about how he never uses that feat/skill and why should he be penalized for making a bad choice six months ago and he never uses that skill/feat anyway so you won't even be able to tell and can he please change it until the DM relents and lets him change it," rule is a fine and well-tested alternative.

I've used it several times.

I've even used the "This new class/PrC/option does exactly what I've been trying to do for the past few years far better than what I've got right now, so I'd like to change over ot that class/PrC/option instead" retcon.

I do note the strangeness of me being more amenable toward retcons than in-character alterations.

 

[Andras]

Question, what if a character recieved a specific bonus feat as a class benefit. Could they later change that bonus feat as a feat, or as a class ability? If it's treated as a feat, you could change it to any other feat you'd qualify for at that level, if a class ability, you caouldn't change it since there's no alternate class ability.

 

[Jhulae]

My concern has been the suspension of disbelief, which seems to be passe' in D&D. Everything is about what happens on the battlemat when the orcs come to call (or the half-dragon, half-demon, half-construct, half-elf...)

It suspends my disbelief when someone at one moment has the ability to do x, and then suddenly doesn't anymore. Yes, I know its a game. but paper and dice are only one part of the game. It's like suddenly everyone forgot the other part.

Alas, poor role-playing, I knew ye well. Now it is simply a game.

Wow... Can this get any more melodramatic?

For those who don't like it... Here's a suggestion that may not have been mentioned yet.. Just don't use it.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Question, what if a character recieved a specific bonus feat as a class benefit. Could they later change that bonus feat as a feat, or as a class ability? If it's treated as a feat, you could change it to any other feat you'd qualify for at that level, if a class ability, you caouldn't change it since there's no alternate class ability.

I suspect a Monk could swap his Improved Grapple for Stunning Fist, a Fighter could swap his Point Blank Shot for Power Attack, and a Wizard could swap his Empower Spell for Brew Potion. But a Ranger could only swap Endurance for... Endurance; since the class feature only qualifies him for one specific feat at that level, he could only swap it for that one specific feat.

My question - I have a Dex of 12, and take (say) Toughness as a feat at 3rd level. Some levels later, I gain a +1 inherent bonus to Dexterity.

Let's say I get level-drained down to 2nd level, and level back up to 3rd. I qualify for the Dodge feat (my Dex is now 13), and can take it as my 3rd level feat (rather than Toughness, which I took first time round).

Now let's say I don't get level-drained. Under the Retraining system, now that my Dex is 13 (not due to a level-based increase), can I swap Toughness for Dodge? Or does the fact that when I took the Toughness feat, my Dex was 12, prohibit it?

-Hyp.