D&D (2024) Pie in the Sky 6E

[Seramus]

Rod of Lordly Might is probably excessive, but definitely sign me up for getting rid of basic +1-3 magic items. Magic items can have all kinds of wonderful effects without a +1 in sight.

 

[RangerWickett]

I want combat to feel more like a fighting game -- by which I mean more active defense instead of simply hoping your opponent rolls lower than your AC. You would have parries and counters as reactions, or perhaps different types of defenses you choose on your turn that will force your opponent to change up tactics instead of just doing 'attack' over and over.

But I want that only if it's done in a way that doesn't slow the game down.

 

[Mezuka]

I want combat to feel more like a fighting game -- by which I mean more active defense instead of simply hoping your opponent rolls lower than your AC. You would have parries and counters as reactions, or perhaps different types of defenses you choose on your turn that will force your opponent to change up tactics instead of just doing 'attack' over and over.

But I want that only if it's done in a way that doesn't slow the game down.

That is what Steve Jackson wanted after trying D&D for the first time. He created Melee, later GURPS.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

I know I shouldn't say it, but 4e Wizards didn't use Vancian style magic, and that was an actual complaint by those who didn't like the system.

I think it was more in terms of spell recovery pacing (encounter/daily) and restricted spell known, since the Wizard could no longer fill the niche of the guy with every spells in the world written in their spell book.

and well, let's be honest, there was also a long of complaining for the sake of it because it was new and different.

 

[Steampunkette]

Oh, speaking of Wizard and magic: ''Vancian'' casting references are so far removed from the current zeitgeist that it seems like an hipster move to keep it in the game.

Nobody coming for the first time in D&D in the past 20 years has had in mind: ''gosh, I hope my spellcasters work like the ones from Jack Vance's Dying Earth!''. Nobody.

Either use a strain system or a mana pool and arrive in 2022, WotC!

There. I said it!

... given the choice I'll take a mana pool.

Your core class ability shouldn't make you suck at existing for using it in a D&D style game.

I want combat to feel more like a fighting game -- by which I mean more active defense instead of simply hoping your opponent rolls lower than your AC. You would have parries and counters as reactions, or perhaps different types of defenses you choose on your turn that will force your opponent to change up tactics instead of just doing 'attack' over and over.

But I want that only if it's done in a way that doesn't slow the game down.

3e introduced "Players roll all dice" so instead of an attack roll coming at you, you'd roll with your armor bonus to beat their Attack DC.

I think that's mostly good enough to make it work? Maybe have different "Ways" to defend yourself. Whether it's big heavy armor + Con bonus to be durable, Light armor + Dex + Weapon Mod for parry, or Intelligence+Proficiency to use a mystical barrier.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Oh, speaking of Wizard and magic: ''Vancian'' casting references are so far removed from the current zeitgeist that it seems like an hipster move to keep it in the game.

Nobody coming for the first time in D&D in the past 20 years has had in mind: ''gosh, I hope my spellcasters work like the ones from Jack Vance's Dying Earth!''. Nobody.

Either use a strain system or a mana pool and arrive in 2022, WotC!

There. I said it!

I'd be happy if they arrived in 1999 in terms of magic systems.

 

[payn]

Have you ever tried playing with "cool magic items"?

As much as I sympathize with the dislike for simple +x items that boost numbers and push bottom spell dispensers, if you move too far from that model the game becomes unplayable owing to information overload.

Complex magic items and especially those with numinous effects become a massive burden on play because of their situational effect on resolution. The less the player knows how the item works, the worse the problem gets. But it turns out that not fully understanding something is often a precondition for it being numinous and thus feeling 'magical', and you actually need the player to help with process resolution just to reduce your mental burden.

I tried running a game where everything had artifact like complexity without artifact like power, and it worked right up until when everyone started getting multiple magic items. Then it was too complex.

There are a lot of things as a GM I thought I wanted which turn out not to work - social combat systems, realistic languages, realistic coinage, magical feeling magic items, etc. Each has their own problem that makes the game worse that can't be overcome in pen and paper (or at all). You can do 'cool magic items' like Diablo II or Noita if you have a computer to run the math and keep track of whether the magic is working. With a computer you could even obfuscate the information about the item from the player so that they don't know why the craziness is happening. But it turns out that you can only have a couple such items in an entire campaign.

So you are stuck I think with trying to create flavor for what is at the bottom just +2 swords and push button spell dispensers.

I haven't because folks always choose a +2 breastplate over a cool magic breast plate that doesn't offer a math bump. Just bake the +2 to AC or attack into character progression already.

I see two ways of handling magic properties, either you go rulings over rules on how magic interacts with the game, or you hard codify its ability with the mechanics. I'm fine winging it, I do it a lot, but I know that makes many gamers quite unhappy.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Your core class ability shouldn't make you suck at existing

T'was more something like the Stamina pool of Dragon Age...
which has the benefit of being usable by casters AND martials.

 

[Medic]

Nobody coming for the first time in D&D in the past 20 years has had in mind: ''gosh, I hope my spellcasters work like the ones from Jack Vance's Dying Earth!''. Nobody.

Hello.

 

[Celebrim]

Rod of Lordly Might is probably excessive, but definitely sign me up for getting rid of basic +1-3 magic items. Magic items can have all kinds of wonderful effects without a +1 in sight.

The problem is not that the write up is excessive. The problem is that at it's heart, the original Swiss Army Magic Item is just a combo +X item and push button spell dispenser with more than one button on it. You get a +1, +2, +3, and +4 item combined with 7 different spells to dispense a couple of which are 'at will'.
If anything, the write up is too short, because as soon as the PC figures out he can force doors with by planting it against something, I'm going to need to know how that enormous force of a Storm Giant can be applied against something other than a door because my players will come up with infinite creative uses not described by the rules (since opening doors was a subsystem in 1e that didn't interact with anything else). Give the GM at least some guidelines here.