Pineapple Express: Someone Is Wrong on the Internet?

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Well, I think it is true in this case. Would RPGs have appeared without D&D? Almost certainly. But those that exist are almost certainly some descendent of D&D, even if the impetus was to reject all that is D&D.

Can you name an RPG that developed independently?

I think it's hard to draw a direct line between Fiasco and D&D.

 

[Umbran]

Marxist. Obviously germanic origins, based on the same ideas as kriegspiel.

Not obviously, but...

Which is the same lineage as D&D. Thus, taxonomically it's the same as D&D.

Backwards. D&D is taxonomically the same as them, as they came first.

We all know that these these "theater traditions" share the same background as Hollywood film. And it's well documented that Gary Gygax spent considerable time in Hollywood developing the D&D cartoon series.

Oh, sorry, dude, but Viola Spolin was developing theater games back in 1940, before Gygax had a handle on the alphabet, much less writing games.

So, again, backwards.

Really, D&D is merely an offshoot of Shakespeare. Most of our games are, at best, Vaudeville... All your game's a stage, and the players... merely players.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Final note ill make on the subject, but this is exactly the problem with D&D being the be all end all of RPGs.

Just to be clear, I don't think its that at all (as I've noted, not that big a D&D fan and tend to find some claims about it suspect) but I have some serious trouble believing Marc Millar wasn't at least aware of D&D when he wrote Trav. I mean, its obviously not a very similar system but it also not really the sort of thing that would spring up the way it looks from completely parallel development. I could be OCD about it and point out the things I'm talking about, but its not really that relevant, and would come across as nit-picky at best.

 

[CleverNickName]

No. All is D&D. D&D is all.

All TTRPGs are defined in terms of D&D. No matter which tabletop RPG you are playing, if someone asks "What game are you playing," your response will be measured by how much it resembles D&D.

Nephew: What are you guys playing?
Me: We're playing Call of Cthulhu.
Nephew: Cool, is that like Dungeons & Dragons?

 

[Deset Gled]

I was thinking the True Detective gif was OTT enough, but I guess not. I need a sarcasm amplifier that goes to 11.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I think D&D is just a generic term for RPGs for a lot of people. And if you are talking OSR, Pathfinder, etc, anything heavily based on d20, that is basically a form of D&D. It makes more sense in those cases to just say D&D. I make games that are in my opinion, definitely not D&D in style. However it wouldn't phase me if people used this terminology for it, as I would assume they just mean it in the generic sense of the word (like Band-Aid became for adhesive bandage or Q-Tip for cotton swab).

 

[Parmandur]

Final note ill make on the subject, but this is exactly the problem with D&D being the be all end all of RPGs.

Just quoting the man himself.

 

[Deset Gled]

I think D&D is just a generic term for RPGs for a lot of people. And if you are talking OSR, Pathfinder, etc, anything heavily based on d20, that is basically a form of D&D. It makes more sense in those cases to just say D&D. I make games that are in my opinion, definitely not D&D in style. However it wouldn't phase me if people used this terminology for it, as I would assume they just mean it in the generic sense of the word (like Band-Aid became for adhesive bandage or Q-Tip for cotton swab).

The notable difference being that when I say "Hey, could we make sure to buy the Water Block Band Aids next time? They work a lot better for me in the summer when I sweat," half of my household doesn't respond to me with "They're all just Band Aids! Johnson and Johnson says we're supposed to just call them Band Aids! I can't tell the difference anyway. You should just call them Band Aids! Also, Johnson and Johnson is an evil capitalist that's turning our world into an AI dystopia."

I think there was supposed to be a pineapple in there somewhere.

 

[Reynard]

Here is a good post on Dicebreaker.

Also, In his 2023 book Monsters, Aliens, and Holes in the Ground, RPG historian Stu Horvath noted, "Traveller is the first RPG that feels like a distinct game, free of D&D's direct influence on its design ...

That's different than not being a response to D&D.

 

[Reynard]

I think it's hard to draw a direct line between Fiasco and D&D.

I meanexcept that Fiasco appeared40 years into the RPG industry.