Pineapple Express: Someone Is Wrong on the Internet?

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

It's year 2024. Our country is 248 years old, and The Buttonwood Agreement (now the New York Stock Exchange) has been around for more than two centuries...

...and yet, people today are still clutching their pearls in shock and disbelief when they learn that businesses only want to make money. Gosh, what did you expect?

Except that businesses today don't act like they did historically. There was a massive coordinated campaign of deregulation in the 1980s, both in the US and around the world.

That has meant that businesses that were once happy to have X level of profit -- it kept the doors open, everyone employed, kept up with inflation and gave everyone periodic raises -- are now rapacious monsters seeking to generate profit for the shareholders at all costs, even if it destroys their communities and employees.

(This has been followed by a concerted propaganda campaign by lobbying groups to define this behavior as "normal and how it's always been. Please don't read any history books.")

The scorched earth behavior is what most people are objecting to. Very few people think the world should be run by non-profits or not-for-profits (which are more complicated than their names make them appear).

It is not unreasonable, even today, to run a business that just seeks to survive and be fine. But the people running most companies today grew up after the 1980s deregulatory wave. And the type of people likely to run companies tend to be the ones who feel like Gordon Gecko was unfairly maligned in Oliver Stone's Wall Street.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Apologists gonna apologize (not for themselves, of course ).

Augustine of Hippo apologizes to no man

 

[CleverNickName]

Except that businesses today don't act like they did historically. There was a massive coordinated campaign of deregulation in the 1980s, both in the US and around the world.
...
It is not unreasonable, even today, to run a business that just seeks to survive and be fine. But the people running most companies today grew up after the 1980s deregulatory wave. And the type of people likely to run companies tend to be the ones who feel like Gordon Gecko was unfairly maligned in Oliver Stone's Wall Street.

I agree completely, but my point still stands: the 1980s were 45 years ago. That now-standard business growth model isn't a new revelation. I'm not saying it's a good thing--I'm just saying it's not news, and not particularly shocking.

 

[payn]

Except that businesses today don't act like they did historically. There was a massive coordinated campaign of deregulation in the 1980s, both in the US and around the world.

That has meant that businesses that were once happy to have X level of profit -- it kept the doors open, everyone employed, kept up with inflation and gave everyone periodic raises -- are now rapacious monsters seeking to generate profit for the shareholders at all costs, even if it destroys their communities and employees.

(This has been followed by a concerted propaganda campaign by lobbying groups to define this behavior as "normal and how it's always been. Please don't read any history books.")

The scorched earth behavior is what most people are objecting to. Very few people think the world should be run by non-profits or not-for-profits (which are more complicated than their names make them appear).

It is not unreasonable, even today, to run a business that just seeks to survive and be fine. But the people running most companies today grew up after the 1980s deregulatory wave. And the type of people likely to run companies tend to be the ones who feel like Gordon Gecko was unfairly maligned in Oliver Stone's Wall Street.

A lot of those ideals are heavily reinforced by media too. A CEO decided that he was going to pay a minimum of 70K a year for all employees (taking a big hit from his own salary). I believe it has since ballooned to 80K. The media went after him like he was a crazy communist anti-American. It was unreal. The threat of a single company owner taking this initiative had to be made an example of.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I agree completely, but my point still stands: the 1980s were 45 years ago. That now-standard business growth model isn't a new revelation. I'm not saying it's a good thing, I'm just saying it's not news, and not particularly shocking.

You are right it isn't shocking. I think this discussion is impossible to have but just worth pointing out that a landmark supreme court decision about 15 years ago radically changed things and basically let corporations write legislation in their favor. There have been a lot of changes since the 80s that really affected how businesses conduct themselves

 

[Parmandur]

A lot of those ideals are heavily reinforced by media too. A CEO decided that he was going to pay a minimum of 70K a year for all employees (taking a big hit from his own salary). I believe it has since ballooned to 80K. The media went after him like he was a crazy communist anti-American. It was unreal. The threat of a single company owner taking this initiative had to be made an example of.

The weird part was how angry aome of his own employees got st the move.

 

[CleverNickName]

One of my more humbling moments on the debate team, years ago (paraphrased heavily):

My point: Our economy is broken!
My opponent's counterpoint: Our economy is working exactly the way it was designed to.

I lost that debate so hard.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

A lot of those ideals are heavily reinforced by media too. A CEO decided that he was going to pay a minimum of 70K a year for all employees (taking a big hit from his own salary). I believe it has since ballooned to 80K. The media went after him like he was a crazy communist anti-American. It was unreal. The threat of a single company owner taking this initiative had to be made an example of.

We're consuming different media, I think. I always see stories holding up these folks as paragons of virtue, while carefully not discussing that "salary" and "total compensation" are two different things.

 

[Saracenus]

Ren has you covered on this topic...

 

[payn]

We're consuming different media, I think. I always see stories holding up these folks as paragons of virtue, while carefully not discussing that "salary" and "total compensation" are two different things.

Well, im trying to stay as neutral as possible, but the backlash was significant for many a viewer, not all.