Pineapple Express: Someone Is Wrong on the Internet?

[Ryujin]

I'm not skeptical about what you specifically are telling me.

I am skeptical of a more generic and general fearful viewpoint: the threat of crime, violent acts, isn't nearly as high as some folks imagine it to be. There is a percentage of the population that seems to have a lens that exaggerates the possibility of harm of any type coming their way. Like an overdeveloped flight response. Handy in the caveman days, when a rustle in the bushes might mean a sabretooth tiger ready to pounce. Not so useful over the last several thousand years though.

Not saying that's you! Sounds like you lived in a rough place, and I get what you're telling me.

As someone who has literally been stalked by two people in downtown Toronto, at 5:00am, I think a healthy dose of situational awareness is a good thing. I also know that I live in one of the safest countries in the world, statistically speaking.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Don't feel under some sort of pressure to feed my curiosity though... you can walk away from the conversation at any time.

No it just felt weird to me because I wasn't making any kind of claim trying to persuade people (I didn't even mention the city initially), I just mentioned I lived in an area with crime in passing. But looking for stats it is kind of tricky (I am seeing a lot of sites that looks kind of suspect). But this looks like it was taken from FBI data. I lived in Lynn, in a pretty dense area of the city. Like I said not the most dangerous, but not a crime free place either. This is a breakdown of the places with the most violent crime in Massachusetts. Being number nine isn't awful, but it also isn't great either. And this break down does seem to vary (I found a site that had us as number 8 instead, which is probably based on data from a different year I would imagine).

And if you go to the wikipedia page for Massachusetts you can find a breakdown by city on a map. My eyes are not super great but it looks like they have Lynn in the <500 Incidents per 100k to me. So it is no Springfield, but it is also no Ipswich either.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I'm not skeptical about what you specifically are telling me.

I am skeptical of a more generic and general fearful viewpoint: the threat of crime, violent acts, isn't nearly as high as some folks imagine it to be. There is a percentage of the population that seems to have a lens that exaggerates the possibility of harm of any type coming their way. Like an overdeveloped flight response. Handy in the caveman days, when a rustle in the bushes might mean a sabretooth tiger ready to pounce. Not so useful over the last several thousand years though.

I am sure this is the case. I wasn't making any broad claim about how afraid of crime people should be. But I think when I moved to Lynn I actually underestimated the crime there (it had a reputation, and the reputation in my view is exaggerated because many of the towns around it are so safe, but the longer I lived there long term, the more I realized crime was something we needed to be mindful of).

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Well it wasn't the most dangerous city in the state, but it certainly had some crime issues. It was in the papers and you heard about it a lot. I have no idea what the actual crime stats are though.

Violent crime in the US peaked in the 1950s. The perception that Americans are in danger from violent crime is largely a product of broadcast news, cable news (especially) and social media. Survey after survey shows that Americans, rural and urban, Black and white, Democrat and Republican, massively overstate how much crime occurs in their state and especially violent crime.

Also, two-thirds of gun deaths are owners using them on themselves. Most gun crime is criminals shooting at other criminals. And when it's not criminals shooting criminals, it's almost certainly a domestic situation of some sort.

The idea that we need guns to protect us from rampant crime is great for the gun industry but not really rooted in reality.

 

[trappedslider]

Some people just like guns and thus buy them, just like some of us like to have rule books for something we'll never run or never use.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

FBI data is unfortunately pretty terrible, because it's voluntary for police departments to report the crimes (thanks, gun industry lobbyists!) and there's no standard for what the entries mean (so different departments will fill in their forms differently, even with identical conditions on the crime).

So take FBI stats on crime across the US with an enormous grain of salt.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

It's also basic tribalism. We've been dealing with that since before we climbed down out of the trees.

Look, if you all climbed out of my tree and let me stay up here, all of this could have been avoided.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Violent crime in the US peaked in the 1950s. The perception that Americans are in danger from violent crime is largely a product of broadcast news, cable news (especially) and social media. Survey after survey shows that Americans, rural and urban, Black and white, Democrat and Republican, massively overstate how much crime occurs in their state and especially violent crime.

Sure, and it has had other peaks and valleys. I am not saying we live in the most dangerous age. I was just pointing out I lived in an area that had crime issues (and there are plenty of places in the US where you do have high crime and it pays to be aware of that: especially with guns being so prevalent).

Also, two-thirds of gun deaths are owners using them on themselves. Most gun crime is criminals shooting at other criminals. And when it's not criminals shooting criminals, it's almost certainly a domestic situation of some sort.

The idea that we need guns to protect us from rampant crime is great for the gun industry but not really rooted in reality.

I never said anything about people owning guns. I am not a gun person. My parents were former hippies and my Dad was a conscientious objector so guns were never a feature of my upbringing

 

[Bedrockgames]

FBI data is unfortunately pretty terrible, because it's voluntary for police departments to report the crimes (thanks, gun industry lobbyists!) and there's no standard for what the entries mean (so different departments will fill in their forms differently, even with identical conditions on the crime).

So take FBI stats on crime across the US with an enormous grain of salt.

Fair enough but someone asked me for data. I am pretty distrustful of crime stats in general because I am also sure a lot of goes unreported. Prior to that I was just going by local papers and literally hearing gunshots in my neighborhoods. And going by things I saw living there. And I even said I thought people were still exaggerating the place's reputation. But it also wasn't like these things weren't happening or things like gangs were a non-issue. But just as an example, the convenience store around the corner from us was regularly getting robbed (it was the kind of store that would have a bunch of security pictures posted on the door of people who had robbed the place, and the there were always more being added). And it was the kind of place where kids were shooting each other at parties because of gang violence. I didn't walk around constantly worried about getting shot, but I also was mindful of what was happening around me.

 

[dragoner]

It's also basic tribalism. We've been dealing with that since before we climbed down out of the trees.

Also part of the fabric of our society, and we tolerate it to some extent. It is wrapped up in other societal ills, classism, lack of empathy, a certain cruelty, FU I've got mine attitudes ... it feels like too much to unpack, overwhelming.