Planet of the Priests
- Thread starter mythusmage
- Start date
mythusmage said:
Well I would find that if every dominian society on that world was run by Religion; Unless all the gods got along and had the people accept their little differences, I'd say there would be a lot of conflict...Lots of it. You could have fun with that though, becuase you'd always be able to keep the PC's on their toes not wanting to fudge ettiquete in different parts of the world, or by becoming involved with various conflicts.
On the bright side I bet you Healing potions would be cheaper.
Tonguez
A suffusion of yellow
Ghoti said:
Pretty much every tribal culture has followed this definition of multiple deities/ancestors/spirits and a cadre of leaders with clerical training. Ancient Egypt would be an example of a large scale civilisation developed on this basis
Ergo I envision the development of a two tier hierarchy where the Priests become the priviledged leaders of their respective states using there abilities to bring comfort to themselves and benefit to the low wis commoners.
The low wis commoners would generally be happy due to the many benefits that their leaders are able to give them (see Herobizkit' post). Of course there may be a few rebellions and there will be wars but the balance of power should be maintained
Kelleris
Explorer
Ghoti said:
That was my first thought, but then I thought it'd be a good idea to play up the religious aspect. If almost everyone receives spells directly from a good, it'd be like those with low wisdom were lacking some fundamental faculty like eyesight in their inability to commune with the divine. They might end up as slaves or poor servants, but I think it's equally possible that they would be pitied a la someone missing a limb and not really thought to be suitable even for slave labor. They'd pretty much be beggars, since nobody would trust their affairs to someone who can't commune with the spirits.
BiggusGeekus
That's Latin for "cool"
The old Runequest game had this. The setting can now be found here http://www.glorantha.com/
Thoughts:
1) Food and water are cheap. Luxury food and water would still be at a premium. Creation spells are 0-level and could get you by, but if you wanted so much as a Pop-Tart you'd have to grow the food and have a chef make it for you.
2) Permenant injury would be very rare. Cure spells, etc.
3) Crafstmanship would be rare. Mending would keep items that might normally deteriorate into the durable goods economy.
4) Good luck finding any undead anywhere.
5) Summoned creatures would be called for quick tasks that are dangerous or difficult.
So your society would have fewer paid craftsmen, there wouldn't be as much point to it. People would be fed and cared for. They could focus more on exploration, warcraft, science, or whatever. But you'd be in this weird state were they had moved away from the agrarian model but without industrialization. So people wouldn't need necessities because they'd already be at their fingertips, but they'd still have a very limited ability to persue luxuries.
The D&D economy is, sadly, incredibly wacky and basically stupid. The central unit of currency is not the gold piece, but the magic item. It centers on a small group of heroes and adventurers, while it ignores the impact it would have on trade. So don't worry about mapping the D&D system to your culture exactly. Otherwise you'll find that some services are priced in the thousands of gps, far beyond anyone's ability to sustain it.
Thoughts:
1) Food and water are cheap. Luxury food and water would still be at a premium. Creation spells are 0-level and could get you by, but if you wanted so much as a Pop-Tart you'd have to grow the food and have a chef make it for you.
2) Permenant injury would be very rare. Cure spells, etc.
3) Crafstmanship would be rare. Mending would keep items that might normally deteriorate into the durable goods economy.
4) Good luck finding any undead anywhere.
5) Summoned creatures would be called for quick tasks that are dangerous or difficult.
So your society would have fewer paid craftsmen, there wouldn't be as much point to it. People would be fed and cared for. They could focus more on exploration, warcraft, science, or whatever. But you'd be in this weird state were they had moved away from the agrarian model but without industrialization. So people wouldn't need necessities because they'd already be at their fingertips, but they'd still have a very limited ability to persue luxuries.
The D&D economy is, sadly, incredibly wacky and basically stupid. The central unit of currency is not the gold piece, but the magic item. It centers on a small group of heroes and adventurers, while it ignores the impact it would have on trade. So don't worry about mapping the D&D system to your culture exactly. Otherwise you'll find that some services are priced in the thousands of gps, far beyond anyone's ability to sustain it.
I ran this campaign once...sort of...
I had a similar set-up as you describe, with very hands-on deities and everyone having some small degree of Clerical power. Had the players make characters accordingly, but warned them there was going to be a twist.
The first thing that happened was the world ending in a fiery ball of holy retribution, and the survivors crawling out from under the rubble.
The whole idea was supposed to be to look at what would happen to a world that relied completely on divine magic when that magic went away. For a number of reasons it didn't work out, but here are some of the conclusions that we worked from:
-People come to depend on magic. If everyone can Cure Light Wounds, there's no reason to learn medicine. If everyone can cast Resist Elements and Create Food and Water, there's little reason to learn survival skills. Plant Growth makes farming methods obsolete. Actual skill is for second-class citizens...those too dense (low wis) to hear the Word of the Gods.
-Life is easy. Basic needs are met by spellcasting. The lowliest peasant has almost everything they need to survive, even to thrive. It becomes much harder to oppress the masses. In the lands influenced by good gods, rulers are genuinely beneficent and noble. In evil lands, a tyrant has to be seriously bad-arsed to rule by force.
-The world is seen in black-and-white. It's simple to determine Good from Evil with a single spell. The moral question becomes not "Is this right?" but "Do I care?"
-By the rules, if you play it that everyone has a level of cleric, this means everyone starts out with d8 hit points, and can use full armor and shields. No more lowly Commoners to get pushed around. A better option might be that everyone has a level of Adept...still a bit of Divine power, but no Domains or armor proficiencies.
-Arcane magic is no longer strange and mysterious...it's kind of superfluous. Why study in musty old libraries for years to learn to cast magic, when the kid digging out the stable can do it naturally? Wizards and Sorcerers are even more marginal in society than normal. "You put all this effort into learning magic, rather than sharing in the will of the Gods? There must be some reason why...are you stupid, or a Heratic?"
I had a similar set-up as you describe, with very hands-on deities and everyone having some small degree of Clerical power. Had the players make characters accordingly, but warned them there was going to be a twist.
The first thing that happened was the world ending in a fiery ball of holy retribution, and the survivors crawling out from under the rubble.
The whole idea was supposed to be to look at what would happen to a world that relied completely on divine magic when that magic went away. For a number of reasons it didn't work out, but here are some of the conclusions that we worked from:
-People come to depend on magic. If everyone can Cure Light Wounds, there's no reason to learn medicine. If everyone can cast Resist Elements and Create Food and Water, there's little reason to learn survival skills. Plant Growth makes farming methods obsolete. Actual skill is for second-class citizens...those too dense (low wis) to hear the Word of the Gods.
-Life is easy. Basic needs are met by spellcasting. The lowliest peasant has almost everything they need to survive, even to thrive. It becomes much harder to oppress the masses. In the lands influenced by good gods, rulers are genuinely beneficent and noble. In evil lands, a tyrant has to be seriously bad-arsed to rule by force.
-The world is seen in black-and-white. It's simple to determine Good from Evil with a single spell. The moral question becomes not "Is this right?" but "Do I care?"
-By the rules, if you play it that everyone has a level of cleric, this means everyone starts out with d8 hit points, and can use full armor and shields. No more lowly Commoners to get pushed around. A better option might be that everyone has a level of Adept...still a bit of Divine power, but no Domains or armor proficiencies.
-Arcane magic is no longer strange and mysterious...it's kind of superfluous. Why study in musty old libraries for years to learn to cast magic, when the kid digging out the stable can do it naturally? Wizards and Sorcerers are even more marginal in society than normal. "You put all this effort into learning magic, rather than sharing in the will of the Gods? There must be some reason why...are you stupid, or a Heratic?"
I see something in most of the posts that is strange to me. I have seen it said many times by different users.
This is the idea that "everyone" will be able to resist elements, will be able to create food and water, will be able to heal.
Now, if the majority of people are just first level clerics, how many spells does that really give them a day?
Then we come to the fact that they must prepare their spells, so if they choose to resist elements then they will not be able to choose other spells.
And while yes, mending does repair items, it does not create them.
With the abundance of Divine Magic I could see the hand made item being a rarity that some might actually want.
If a high magic system causes stagnation of society then most of the D&D Worlds should not exist. This idea would make a high divine magic society instead of a high arcane magic society. Granted that no system has every person being a first level spell caster but with the abundance of magic and magic items it does come close.
Look how Eberron handles it.
As for the low wisdom people, again, I could see them as a servant caste. Not so much as slaves. That is society has created a place for them where they can fulfill a useful role.
This is the idea that "everyone" will be able to resist elements, will be able to create food and water, will be able to heal.
Now, if the majority of people are just first level clerics, how many spells does that really give them a day?
Then we come to the fact that they must prepare their spells, so if they choose to resist elements then they will not be able to choose other spells.
And while yes, mending does repair items, it does not create them.
With the abundance of Divine Magic I could see the hand made item being a rarity that some might actually want.
If a high magic system causes stagnation of society then most of the D&D Worlds should not exist. This idea would make a high divine magic society instead of a high arcane magic society. Granted that no system has every person being a first level spell caster but with the abundance of magic and magic items it does come close.
Look how Eberron handles it.
As for the low wisdom people, again, I could see them as a servant caste. Not so much as slaves. That is society has created a place for them where they can fulfill a useful role.
Yesh, such a response.
Now, in case you hadn't noticed, people are more tolerant than you think. Adherents to polytheistic faiths pretty much so. With a few notable exceptions. You have gods for many roles, and you call upon the appropriate god for what you want done.
Think of clerics, even part time clerics, as generalists. It's Priests (Advanced Class) who devote themselves to one particular deity. (Yes, it would require modifying the rules too.)
I can see mortal/deital relationships becoming more a dialogue than in traditional settings. At the same time, with increased "contact" the mortals could assume a greater degree of familiarity than before. Whether or not such was justified.
People have been assuming greater deital activity. Not necessarily. With all those Clerics running around the gods are going to have lots of agents they can call upon. Demonologist working on summoning a fiend? Do a Reverse Commune on the local Priest, who in turn contacts the local Clerics. The posse then hunts down the Demonologist and puts a serious hurt on him.
Where magic is concerned, expect a greatly expanded spell list. Divinations for finding resources and the best farmland, healings for specific conditions and injury types. enhancements both temporary and permanent for characteristics and abilities.
In the case of Wisdom, I can see the development of techniques and dweomers for increasing it. One might even see gods and Clerics developing "negative level" Clerical spells those with low Wisdom could call for. At the very least, something that would ease their fears, and the fears of those they're trying to help.
This set up would also change how people age. Additions to Wisdom would likely increase, with perhaps a +1 to Wisdom when reaching adulthood.
Crafts may not suffer as much as some think. Which would you prefer, an item that needs Mending frequently, or one that needs Mending rarely? With Clerical Divinations that help the crafter learn the quality of his raw materials, their strengths and weaknesses, crafting would likely become easier and of better quality. Now add alteration magics to enhance items and you have a world where all but the poorest can afford items that only the well to do can purchase in other realms.
BTW, this is not for any specific setting, just a topic for conversation. Anybody wants to work out such a setting, feel free.
Now, in case you hadn't noticed, people are more tolerant than you think. Adherents to polytheistic faiths pretty much so. With a few notable exceptions. You have gods for many roles, and you call upon the appropriate god for what you want done.
Think of clerics, even part time clerics, as generalists. It's Priests (Advanced Class) who devote themselves to one particular deity. (Yes, it would require modifying the rules too.)
I can see mortal/deital relationships becoming more a dialogue than in traditional settings. At the same time, with increased "contact" the mortals could assume a greater degree of familiarity than before. Whether or not such was justified.
People have been assuming greater deital activity. Not necessarily. With all those Clerics running around the gods are going to have lots of agents they can call upon. Demonologist working on summoning a fiend? Do a Reverse Commune on the local Priest, who in turn contacts the local Clerics. The posse then hunts down the Demonologist and puts a serious hurt on him.
Where magic is concerned, expect a greatly expanded spell list. Divinations for finding resources and the best farmland, healings for specific conditions and injury types. enhancements both temporary and permanent for characteristics and abilities.
In the case of Wisdom, I can see the development of techniques and dweomers for increasing it. One might even see gods and Clerics developing "negative level" Clerical spells those with low Wisdom could call for. At the very least, something that would ease their fears, and the fears of those they're trying to help.
This set up would also change how people age. Additions to Wisdom would likely increase, with perhaps a +1 to Wisdom when reaching adulthood.
Crafts may not suffer as much as some think. Which would you prefer, an item that needs Mending frequently, or one that needs Mending rarely? With Clerical Divinations that help the crafter learn the quality of his raw materials, their strengths and weaknesses, crafting would likely become easier and of better quality. Now add alteration magics to enhance items and you have a world where all but the poorest can afford items that only the well to do can purchase in other realms.
BTW, this is not for any specific setting, just a topic for conversation. Anybody wants to work out such a setting, feel free.
jdrakeh
Front Range Warlock
Ghoti said:
Belonging to /= worshipping. In my Realms games, I don't require that every single sentient being worship (or even believe in) a deity. As I understood the OP's post, all characters in his setting worship a god and are sworn to serve him - after all, he said it was a world of priests (who, unlike clerics, are necessarily affiliated with an institutional church).
I never suggested this - I suggested that they would likely fight against other gods, not fail to acknowledge them. Sure, alliances can occur (and likely would), but they'd be tenuous at best. I see no reason why a bunch of gods who despise each other would suddenly want to live together in harmony and drop a long-established history (in D&D settings, anyhow) of Good vs Evil.
painandgreed
First Post
Undead and even humanoids would be in short supply. Having a general population that is capable of wearing armor, using weapons and casting heals is going to make for a mean population (unless all humanoids and monsters have level in their gods clerics).
I doubt if there would be any changes socially. A pantheist religions with lots of little gods to go around, everybody is more like a family than anything. Especailly if you have a typical husband/wife that rule all the gods with all the others picking various domains. Everybody would probably just pick the gods that goes with their occupation. Farmers worship the god of farming. Farmer's wives worship the goddess of the hearth. Craftsmen worship the god of craftsmen, etc. It could be that there are so many different gods that nobody can keep track of them all because of all the local deities (much like it was in RL). Evil gods may just represent part of the natural order that sometimes must be worshiped if just to placate, so they may be tolerated.
There's lots of heals and stuff with the magic, but honestly, would that really affect the typical D&D world? When was the last time anybody got a broken leg or caught the flu in your typical D&D game?
Still, with just a little more than half of the world ending up as clerics, there will be a big social divide between the haves and the have nots. Even then there would be lots of multi-classing since most of the population will never be able to cast 2nd level spells until they get old even if they can cast spells. So you'll still have fighters, wizards, and rogues. Even then, clerics might make passable fighters or wizards but they still won't make good rogues.
I doubt if there would be any changes socially. A pantheist religions with lots of little gods to go around, everybody is more like a family than anything. Especailly if you have a typical husband/wife that rule all the gods with all the others picking various domains. Everybody would probably just pick the gods that goes with their occupation. Farmers worship the god of farming. Farmer's wives worship the goddess of the hearth. Craftsmen worship the god of craftsmen, etc. It could be that there are so many different gods that nobody can keep track of them all because of all the local deities (much like it was in RL). Evil gods may just represent part of the natural order that sometimes must be worshiped if just to placate, so they may be tolerated.
There's lots of heals and stuff with the magic, but honestly, would that really affect the typical D&D world? When was the last time anybody got a broken leg or caught the flu in your typical D&D game?
Still, with just a little more than half of the world ending up as clerics, there will be a big social divide between the haves and the have nots. Even then there would be lots of multi-classing since most of the population will never be able to cast 2nd level spells until they get old even if they can cast spells. So you'll still have fighters, wizards, and rogues. Even then, clerics might make passable fighters or wizards but they still won't make good rogues.
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