Player just doing the same thing problem- please help.

[Goonalan]

The group I DM have embraced 4e via Maptools, we play 5 hours every Sunday, we're all friends.

We have Lambrini, Tiefling Wizard stays out of trouble and provides the artillery; Vik, Eladrin Rogue does all the stealth work and generally gets stuck at the front, initiates all combat (or so it seems); Daja, Dragonborn Paladin- the Tank; Falco, Dwarven Cleric- mainly a Tank too; and Talwyn, Elven Ranger.

The problem is every fight the Rogue (who is the least experienced role-player/gamer- but good at it) is stuck at the front and usually the first into the trouble.

The Paladin Tank and the Dwarven Cleric (who doesn't want to be the Tank all the time) then rush in to allow the Rogue to manouevre a little, and sometimes to save his bacon.

The Wizard stands at the back and blasts away.

The Archer specialist Ranger 90% of the time, and always at the start of every combat is last in line and uses his bow exclusively- he never gets hit.

No problem except the Ranger has as good stealth as the Rogue, but does no scouting ahead- leaving the Thief to get stuck in the mix, and make decisions unaided when the baddies get in on him. Even though the Rogue has the 2nd worst AC, low HPs, a great To Hit, but poor damage, unless he's got Combat Advantage.

The Ranger has a better AC, Hit Points, Movement, Attacks and Damage in Melee then Falco, the Cleric, but doesn't help out in the front line at all.

So exclusively he stands at the back and opens up- which can be devestating but the other players have to sit in the middle and get bogged down with combat- always.

The Ranger wants none of it, and then complains that the other players are not thinking about the game tactically enough.

I've tried to explain to the Ranger that it might be a good idea for him to share the scouting but he's not going to do it, and to perhaps take the weight off the Cleric every once in a while but that's a no goer as well.

The result of this mix is at the end of say six encounters the Paladin has a handful of Healing Surges left, the Wizard is down two or three, the Cleric and the Rogue have either got one left or are all spent and the Ranger has maybe lost one, some days he's not even lost a hit point.

Any suggestions?

 

[Kordeth]

Sounds like your players are, by and large, playing the way they're supposed to. The ranger really should be sharing scouting duties, Prime Shot and Hunter's Quarry work better when you're closer to the enemy, but other than that your party's tactics seem sound. Try throwing more lurkers and skirmishers at them to slip past the front lines and mess the ranger up, ore artillery to bomb the back ranks if you're worried.

 

[Traveon Wyvernspur]

I'd spring some stuff on him from behind as well. Make him get into the thick of things. See how he likes the tactical DM and the tactical creatures that he's running up against in the next encounter, maybe then he'll be more apt to try to scout a little bit as well if he's worried about getting caught from behind like the rogue gets caught from ahead. Just my evil thinking though. Or you could give him some incentive of some sort to want to scout out with the rogue, just seems he's too selfish to put his own hide on the line for the group like the rest of them.

 

[Nifft]

Skirmishers, mang. You need to get a skirmisher or two targeting the Wizard and Ranger.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Goonalan]

Noted, will do, although my problem (and others) is with the Ranger, he's not willing to get dirty even when others are rushing around trying to save each other he's ten paces back doing the same thing most rounds, at least 90% of the time anyway- and then bitching that the group shouldn't be in this mess in the first place, the other players are getting irked that he's complaining about their lack of tactics and yet he's not suggesting any alternives and resolutely remains at the back, we play on MapTools, he's usually on the bottom square of the screen while the others are some ten or so squares away.

This week a Kobold Chieftain snuck up on him (designed like a Slyblade except with nasty hand crossbow damage), sent him to a handful of HP in one round (they're only 2nd level characters) and he blamed the Rogue for starting the fight, not playing tactically- I think that was an over-reaction to the fact it's genuinely the first time he's taken any real damage. But the fact remains the group, I feel, is on the road to implosion, and the Ranger can't see why.

Thanks for the reply, any further advice welcome, it's keeping me awake- the players are all very good friends- family some of them.

 

[Goonalan]

It also doesn't help that as the last fight kicked off, probably their hardest encounter to date, then the Ranger was being guarded by the Paladin as he had just killed a Kobold kid- for no good reason, and much to the annoyance of the Cleric, and said Paladin, even the Rogue leapt in to bar the way- stop him offing anymore of them.

From there the Rogue headed forward with Cleric and Wizard- the Paladin having a "whispered" but amusing conversation via MapTools with the Ranger, as to why the Ranger should desist from killing more Kobolds- there's a 10gp reward for Kobold head- the Ranger finds a chamber of kids and mums- result he's rich, the Paladin explaining that she's not taking Kobold kids heads back and trying to claim a reward for them). Anyway the Rogue goes scouting and gets into a fight, he's on his own and the otherside of a sprung pit.

Result Rogue in the thick of it, but holding his own. Cleric doing his best to get round difficult terrain to provide support, Wizard a-ok bringing the fire, and the Paladin having to dash back to the front- the Ranger sidles up, remains secure behind the pit trap for a while, then heads into the chamber ahead to hide along the back wall in the fungi, while the Paladin, Cleric and Thief go toe to toe. Then a Deathjump spider drops off the ceiling and the Kobold Chieftain makes his appearance- having circled around the group via an unexplored passageway.

The other players (Paladin & Cleric) have said that they have had to act out of character to stop the fight from breaking out with the Ranger. The Ranger thinks I ahve a problem with this as I was a little peeved that he's started killing kids, his last character a Paladin was fond of slaying sleeping Orcs. It gets me how he can't see that the other two players in the party are getting annoyed by this.

 

[kouk]

Have you.... told the Ranger your concerns?

 

[Mistwell]

An archer ranger should absolutely be staying back and using his bow. Almost all his power is based off of his bow. His ability scores and powers and feats are almost certainly based off of that tactic. You need to accept that. It's intended to work that way.

However as for scouting I think it is fair that he share those duties with the rogue.

But seriously, you need to lay off him using his bow from the back. That is the point of the archer build. He's not a melee combatant, and you shouldn't force him to be one because you are for some reason stuck on thinking he is. He is a ranged striker. Let him be a ranged striker.

 

[Mezzer]

You could also tell the other players to simply ignore any potential threats that might wanna come the ranger's way, and let him handle them. One of the ideas of healing surges is that everyone should ideally spend the same (relative) amount of them over several encounters, so your defenders don't run out too fast. If the ranger can take a few hits, have the party, encourage them even, let him 'handle it'.

 

[RyvenCedrylle]

My $0.02, FWIW

Other than the rogue not quite getting back to the party fast enough, your team has the basics down pretty well. They may not have style or grace yet, but the fundamentals are there. It sounds to me like you need to incorporate ranged attackers into your encounters. I don't remember the thread exactly ("grok my warlock," maybe?), but it was pretty well delineated that an archer striker does best when they're ignored - as opposed to the warlock who's best when attacked, and the rogue somehwere in the middle. A ranger, standing around, isolated from the group raining arrows into melee with impunity is going to regret that decision when faced with other long-range combatants. Getting some skirmishers past the paladin will help, but I would suggest enemy slingers/archers. That being said, your ranger is in fact doing what he or she is supposed to do, and should not be punished for it.

Furthermore, a bow-based ranger is not going to want to scout ahead and risk ending up in melee. Consider giving the ranger (and maybe the rogue) other ways, occasionally, to 'scout ahead' that don't involve literally moving up to the front ranks. Trees if you're outside, listening through doors/windows, that sort of thing. Hopefully this gives you some ideas.