RigaMortus
Explorer
That character sounds very messed up. Lots of errors in it. What FEATS did he take?
player says his wizard has the paragon half elf feat?
- Thread starter Sir ThornCrest
- Start date
BSF
Explorer
A few things to consider.
First of all, be fairly stringent at vetting PCs. I suggest going core books only as a default with all other material on an approved only basis. Insist on having time to really read the material before approving it as well. If that means a player has to let you borrow a book for a week or three, then so be it.
Secondly, ask the player flat out how the stuff they want to use can be abused. Make the player run through the worst case scenario and propose the inclusion of new material. There is no reason why the player can't do the initial work. Then ask the player how the PC will use the new material and what needs to happen to avoid having the game break down.
Thirdly, be sure to emphasize that anything the PCs can do, so can the NPCs. I once had a player that wanted to build a PrC that allowed a fighter to whack off arms, legs, heads, etc by taking a to-hit penalty. I turned it around and asked the player if he wanted NPC combatants with that same PrC.
Fourthly, don't allow PCs to start at a given level. Start them at a given exp total. Then when the PC makes items, he has to remember to subtract exp from his exp pool.
Fifthly, remember that just because all D20 material is theoretically compatible, that doesn't mean it is necessarily a good idea to allow all of it. When you draw from a deep pool of material, you can easily get combinations that favor the player with the larger library. Balance against the default rules assumptions is good, but balance against the PCs in the group is better. You can run a campaign that is terribly unbalanced against the rules. But running a campaign where the PCs are unbalanced often means that some of the players are not having as much fun.
First of all, be fairly stringent at vetting PCs. I suggest going core books only as a default with all other material on an approved only basis. Insist on having time to really read the material before approving it as well. If that means a player has to let you borrow a book for a week or three, then so be it.
Secondly, ask the player flat out how the stuff they want to use can be abused. Make the player run through the worst case scenario and propose the inclusion of new material. There is no reason why the player can't do the initial work. Then ask the player how the PC will use the new material and what needs to happen to avoid having the game break down.
Thirdly, be sure to emphasize that anything the PCs can do, so can the NPCs. I once had a player that wanted to build a PrC that allowed a fighter to whack off arms, legs, heads, etc by taking a to-hit penalty. I turned it around and asked the player if he wanted NPC combatants with that same PrC.
Fourthly, don't allow PCs to start at a given level. Start them at a given exp total. Then when the PC makes items, he has to remember to subtract exp from his exp pool.
Fifthly, remember that just because all D20 material is theoretically compatible, that doesn't mean it is necessarily a good idea to allow all of it. When you draw from a deep pool of material, you can easily get combinations that favor the player with the larger library. Balance against the default rules assumptions is good, but balance against the PCs in the group is better. You can run a campaign that is terribly unbalanced against the rules. But running a campaign where the PCs are unbalanced often means that some of the players are not having as much fun.
Sir ThornCrest
First Post
iron will stacks? Or so all the players last night said so at once.
It may be a house rule.
Also about the unarmored variant its in the 4th chapter (+/- 1) of the unearthed arcana
basically armor absorbs damage per blow equal to half of its bonus and if your unarmored you get a bonus to ac the amount would be as per class and level. Monks, Sorcerers,Psions,Wizards,rogues get a +1 to ac for every 2 levels thus a 12th level wizard gets +6. The same level fighter, ranger barbarian palidon adds +9 to ac. But that means no armor or shield.
Thorncrest
It may be a house rule.
Also about the unarmored variant its in the 4th chapter (+/- 1) of the unearthed arcana
basically armor absorbs damage per blow equal to half of its bonus and if your unarmored you get a bonus to ac the amount would be as per class and level. Monks, Sorcerers,Psions,Wizards,rogues get a +1 to ac for every 2 levels thus a 12th level wizard gets +6. The same level fighter, ranger barbarian palidon adds +9 to ac. But that means no armor or shield.
Thorncrest
BSF
Explorer
Iron Will doesn't stack, so it would have to be a house rule.
The "unarmored variant" is meant to be a campaign rule. I believe it is generally referred to as Armor as DR. To use it correctly, each PC in the game will need to use it. As will, each NPC. Oh and all monsters since Natural armor gets translated with DR as well. It is an interesting idea and I wouldn't mind playing with it at some point. Unfortunately I do not have the time to experiment with it myself in my campaign. Maybe in a one-shot someday? But my point is that you need to be sure that particular rule applies to your campaign, not just a single character in the campaign.
The "unarmored variant" is meant to be a campaign rule. I believe it is generally referred to as Armor as DR. To use it correctly, each PC in the game will need to use it. As will, each NPC. Oh and all monsters since Natural armor gets translated with DR as well. It is an interesting idea and I wouldn't mind playing with it at some point. Unfortunately I do not have the time to experiment with it myself in my campaign. Maybe in a one-shot someday? But my point is that you need to be sure that particular rule applies to your campaign, not just a single character in the campaign.
Lodow MoBo
First Post
This guy has 5 feats to work with
Three must be metamagic/craft for the Lore Master
one must be a skill focus feat for the Lore master.
This leaves one one for Iron will.
The plaer wealth of the character is messed up badly. The 16th lvl character I had did not have it so nice. +6 item 36k
Bracers of armor +8 64k
a 12th lvl character should have around 90k worth of stuff, we are at 100K with the 2 items
The group I play with never start so high. Typically the highest we start is 5th lvl. This really cuts down on the problem you are seeing here.
Three must be metamagic/craft for the Lore Master
one must be a skill focus feat for the Lore master.
This leaves one one for Iron will.
The plaer wealth of the character is messed up badly. The 16th lvl character I had did not have it so nice. +6 item 36k
Bracers of armor +8 64k
a 12th lvl character should have around 90k worth of stuff, we are at 100K with the 2 items
The group I play with never start so high. Typically the highest we start is 5th lvl. This really cuts down on the problem you are seeing here.
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BSF
Explorer
You know, looking at the class structure I would be very interested in finding out a level-by-level build for this guy.
Loremaster requires 10 ranks in knowledge skills, 3 metamagic/creation feats and 7+ 3rd level or higher divination spells.
That means the PC would need to be 7th level before being elegible for LoreMaster at all. Since there are only 4 wizard levels, and 2 paragon levels, then the PC must have taken Mage of the Arcane Order before Loremaster. Alas, I do not have Complete Arcane, does anybody recall the pre-req for MoAO?
I suspect this is a detail the player overlooked. He probably checked that he could reach the requirements by 12th level and figured everything was cool. I see that error often with inexperienced, though enthusiastic, players.
Sir Thorncrest, I would encourage ou to also sit down with the player and go through the level-by-leel advancement process to see how the PC got to where he did. In the process, encourage him to figure out the events that transpired in the background for the PC. Somehow the PC has picked up two PrCs and there should be reasons for that development that can be worked into story hooks for your game. You might doublecheck eerybody's PC in the same way.
Loremaster requires 10 ranks in knowledge skills, 3 metamagic/creation feats and 7+ 3rd level or higher divination spells.
That means the PC would need to be 7th level before being elegible for LoreMaster at all. Since there are only 4 wizard levels, and 2 paragon levels, then the PC must have taken Mage of the Arcane Order before Loremaster. Alas, I do not have Complete Arcane, does anybody recall the pre-req for MoAO?
I suspect this is a detail the player overlooked. He probably checked that he could reach the requirements by 12th level and figured everything was cool. I see that error often with inexperienced, though enthusiastic, players.
Sir Thorncrest, I would encourage ou to also sit down with the player and go through the level-by-leel advancement process to see how the PC got to where he did. In the process, encourage him to figure out the events that transpired in the background for the PC. Somehow the PC has picked up two PrCs and there should be reasons for that development that can be worked into story hooks for your game. You might doublecheck eerybody's PC in the same way.
BardStephenFox said:
Mage of the Arcane Order requires: Knowledge (Arcana) 8 ranks, Cooperative Spell feat, one other metamagic Feat, able to prepare and cast 2nd level arcane spells, and an initiation fee of 750 gp.
So you can enter MoAO as early as 6th level, and all the requirements for MoAO can be used to help you qualify for Loremaster.
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