D&D 5E Players: Why Do You Want to Roll a d20?

[Maxperson]

Here @Oofta, this may help you understand the process better.

Step 1: Is the ability check impossible? If yes, player fails. If no, go to step 2.

Step 2: Is the task so easy that it's an auto success? If yes, player succeeds without a roll. If no, go to step 3.

Step 3: Is there a meaningful consequence for failure? If yes, go to step 4. If no, player succeeds without a roll.

Step 4: Set a DC and have the player roll the die, then go to step 5.

Step 5: Did the player succeed? If yes, player succeeds. If no, go to step 6.

Step 6: Have the PC make no progress towards the goal along with the meaningful consequence failure, or make progress with a setback along with the meaningful consequence for failure.

You see how all the rules work together and don't fight each other?

 

[robus]

It's almost as if there's two rulebooks!

 

[Maxperson]

It's almost as if there's two rulebooks!

Yep! They both apply, though. Unless you're the DM, you can't just point to one or the other as what "the" rules say.

 

[Oofta]

So now the DMG doesn't have rules?

So either
A) the "consequence of failure" is talking about mundane tasks such as ordering a drink and it's being taken out of context.
or
B) The sections where it states that failing to hit the DC can mean you just don't make progress and the section where is says don't call for a roll if you answer no to the questions (no chance of failure, clearly impossible) are just meaningless drivel to be ignored.

I choose A. Words have meaning based on their context.

 

[Maxperson]

So either
A) the "consequence of failure" is talking about mundane tasks such as ordering a drink and it's being taken out of context.
or
B) The sections where it states that failing to hit the DC can mean you just don't make progress and the section where is says don't call for a roll if you answer no to the questions (no chance of failure, clearly impossible) are just meaningless drivel to be ignored.

I choose A. Words have meaning based on their context.

That's a blatant False Dichotomy. Refer to the post where I lay out the steps. It's really easy to understand if you make even a modicum of effort.

 

[Imaculata]

I choose A. Words have meaning based on their context.

Yeah but "Only call for a roll if there is a meaningful consequence for failure. " is a pretty general rule, that shouldn't apply only to mundane tasks. Whenever the DM asks for a roll, that means:

-there's a chance to succeed
-there's a meaningful consequence for failure

If one of those two doesn't apply, then a roll is a waste of everyone's time.

 

[Campbell]

The point of rolling the dice is that there is meaningful tension and we all want to see what is about to happen. If that's not the case what's the point of rolling?

 

[5ekyu]

Yeah but "Only call for a roll if there is a meaningful consequence for failure. " is a pretty general rule, that shouldn't apply only to mundane tasks. Whenever the DM asks for a roll, that means:

-there's a chance to succeed
-there's a meaningful consequence for failure

If one of those two doesn't apply, then a roll is a waste of everyone's time.

No, it's not a general rule. It's a specific rule given context by the examples in the paragraph it is a part of.

The general rule in the DMG follows it in the very next sentence and following list, that starts to answer how to decide whether to use a roll or not.

It keys on two things - can it succeed and can it fail.

Obvioudly one can take a sentence, divorce it from the paragraph it is in, the context it is given and the examples it was paired with.

 

[Oofta]

That's a blatant False Dichotomy. Refer to the post where I lay out the steps. It's really easy to understand if you make even a modicum of effort.

Or - and I know this is hard to believe - I simply disagree. I'm using Occam's Razor. Maybe Occam's dull butter knife. Either the rules directly contradict themselves and leave out your all important "cost" in 2 out of 3 mentions of how to handle checks or my interpretation of the rule is correct.

You have a right to disagree. Just like I have the right to point out that your interpretation of the rules is not "The rules". Have a good one!

 

[Oofta]

The point of rolling the dice is that there is meaningful tension and we all want to see what is about to happen. If that's not the case what's the point of rolling?

They can also be used to resolve uncertainty. See "The Role of Dice" in the DMG. How much you use them is up to you.