D&D General Playstyle vs Mechanics

[soviet]

Perhaps, but I suspect not.

This is a tangent but (and an opinion):

Correct me if I'm wrong, but none of the systems you listed are level based.

I strongly believe (and am certainly not the first to do so) one of the driving forces behind the huge success of D&D was/is the level system. As clunky as it often is, there is some kind of psychological magic that makes people REALLY want to advance to the next level, then the next - then the next. Something I do not see with point-based systems that lack the level mechanic.

MERP has levels, albeit they are slightly less exciting than in 1e AD&D. Basically in MERP when you level up you always get a bunch of numeric increases like in D&D - hit points, skill points, attack bonuses, save bonuses, etc. If you're a caster you also get extra spells known and extra spell slots (spell points). The difference is that in AD&D you'd have the occasional level where you get to build a castle and summon followers, or something of that nature, which MERP doesn't have.

WFRP (1 and 2e) doesn't have levels but it does have XP that you use to directly buy advances and class upgrades that are all visible on a prominent progress chart on your character sheet.

Runequest I'm less familiar with but I think basically you make rolls to improve your skills every time you use them.

I will say though that I think some of this stuff about levels is a result of D&D's success, rather than necessarily a reason for it. That is, D&D had levels and was successful, and now 50 years of computer games and other RPGs have also featured levels because they are inspired by D&D, and so levels are something people now expect. Even games like FATE etc still have character progression and change, just not in such a linear way.

 

[mamba]

The problem is we just don't know for sure.

agreed, we do not

Or it could be that the rules released with each edition of D&D just did something to capture the audience it garnered.

I doubt it. The first one was the first, so it captured its audience for what it was, not for its rules being so great.

The rules managed to not drive people away more than they managed to attracted them imo, and some almost managed the former too

I'm curious, do you believe that if D&D's rules were replaced with something like PBTA... it would continue to be the #1 rpg? How about FATE? FATAL?

eventually you get to the point where they do drive people away, esp. current players, see 4e. So yes, if you change them too much and then stick to that for over a decade (in case of 4e, Essentials was already a course correction, but too little and too late to save the edition), you can tank D&D, but it takes more than a misstep to do so. As long as you do not make drastic overhauls and course correct when needed, it will be hard.

That does not mean the rules are so great that they attract people, just that they aren’t so bad to actively drive them away, and there is a relatively big area in which they can roam before crossing such a line

 

[mamba]

If it was the best selling car ever and someone claimed it was everybody's second favorite car... yeah I would. The only way to take that is damning with faint praise... it's a perfect example of it.

well, at least you are consistent I guess… I would not expect the best selling car to even make the top 10 of best cars, to some degree because price plays a much bigger role with cars than with TTRPGs

 

[Mort]

MERP has levels, albeit they are slightly less exciting than in 1e AD&D. Basically in MERP when you level up you always get a bunch of numeric increases like in D&D - hit points, skill points, attack bonuses, save bonuses, etc. If you're a caster you also get extra spells known and extra spell slots (spell points). The difference is that in AD&D you'd have the occasional level where you get to build a castle and summon followers, or something of that nature, which MERP doesn't have.

WFRP (1 and 2e) doesn't have levels but it does have XP that you use to directly buy advances and class upgrades that are all visible on a prominent progress chart on your character sheet.

Runequest I'm less familiar with but I think basically you make rolls to improve your skills every time you use them.

I will say though that I think some of this stuff about levels is a result of D&D's success, rather than necessarily a reason for it. That is, D&D had levels and was successful, and now 50 years of computer games and other RPGs have also featured levels because they are inspired by D&D, and so levels are something people now expect. Even games like FATE etc still have character progression and change, just not in such a linear way.

There is, of course, a bit of a chicken and egg issue. But, I'll agree with @tetrasodium , people stick with level based games more/longer - even when new to the hobby.

 

[Imaro]

That does not mean the rules are so great that they attract people, just that they aren’t so bad to actively drive them away, and there is a relatively big area in which they can roam before crossing such a line

It doesnt actually mean either of those things. Again we dont know with certainty about the majority but we do have at least anecdotal evidence that the rules are the draw for some people which in turn means there ate those who think the rules are the main draw and also suggests a possibility that a majority of D&D players actively like and are drawn to the rules they use is possible.

 

[Imaro]

well, at least you are consistent I guess… I would not expect the best selling car to even make the top 10 of best cars, to some degree because price plays a much bigger role with cars than with TTRPGs

I didn't say best (and neither did the OP).

 

[mamba]

It doesnt actually mean either of those things. Again we dont know with certainty

I agreed with not knowing for certain already, what you are quoting is me answering your question from my perspective

 

[mamba]

I didn't say best (and neither did the OP).

favorite / best, in this context I see no difference. Why would I favor a game I consider to be worse…

 

[Mort]

well, at least you are consistent I guess… I would not expect the best selling car to even make the top 10 of best cars, to some degree because price plays a much bigger role with cars than with TTRPGs

Especially with cars, the problem is "best" means completely different things to different people.

To some best means fastest, to some most luxurious, to others it means safest -and many, many other "bests." you're not going to find a car that could possibly hit all those buttons.

You have similar problems with RPGs - "best" is extremely subjective. And with D&D, you'll even have huge disagreements as to which D&D is the best D&D (and some will say Dungeonworld or something else is best).

 

[Lanefan]

I am speaking to the rules... its still called D&D but when you open up the phb it's the rules for playing FATE... do you believe it would still continue to be the #1 selling rpg?

If it had the D&D name on it it'd still sell like hotcakes, at least for a while.

We've historical proof of this.