Please rate Energy Substitution

[Fenes 2]

A wizard, on the other hand is a different kettle of fish. Since he's unable to spontaneously apply metamagic feats, he can't use ES: Fire or ES: cold to always have a double damage elemental type available to him. ES is only useful to him in a few situations:
1. It enables him to take advantage of DC boosting feats (Bloodline of Fire) or abilities (Elemental Savant's elemental focus)
2. He has advance knowledge of what he will be fighting and can prepare accordingly.
3. He selects ES: sonic because nearly nothing is immune to it so he can prepare all his spells as sonics on the assumption that, seven times out of ten it will be as good as normal spells, and 2.9 times out of ten it will be better. (For the .1 times out of 10 that he's facing a bard, destrachan, or Formian...oh well, there's still Magic Missile).

IIRC, the bonus from Bloodline of fire only applies to sorcerer spells, not wizard spells.

I rate the feat an 8 - very useful and powerful for a sorcerer, but not as useful for a wizard. I did not take the feat for my own fire themed sorceress, instead choosing fire variants of several spells (Cone of Cold became Cone of Fire, Chain Lightning became Fire Chains) since I wanted a character that would be dependent on fire spells and unable to switch to other energy types in a pinch (apart from Magic Missile, which has been proven to be effective enough so far).

 

[Trine]

Energy Sub (Sonic):
Pros: Not much is immune/resistant to it. Good at smashing objects to little bitty pieces.
Cons: I don't know if I've seen anything with a weakness to sonic attacks.

So it's a lot less likely your spells will be resisted (until you face spellcasters who are covering their weaknesses), but it's also a lot less likely that you'll ever do double damage because of a weakness.

Personally, that's not enough to place an outright ban on the feat.

 

[guido1999]

Also, sonic spells won't work on anybody who can't hear, i.e. in the area of a silence spell, which is another disadvantage.

 

[Trine]

Err, do you have a rules reference for that please? FAQ, errata or Sage Advice also count in my books. (For the most part, anyway.)

 

[guido1999]

From the SRD:

Silence
Illusion (Glamer)
Level: Brd 2, Clr 2
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Area: 15-ft.-radius emanation centered on a creature, object, or point in space
Duration: 1 minute/level
Saving Throw: Will negates or none (object)
Spell Resistance: Yes or no (object)
Upon the casting of this spell, complete silence prevails in the affected area. All sound is stopped: Conversation is impossible, spells with verbal components cannot be cast, and no noise whatsoever issues from, enters, or passes through the area.* The spell can be cast on a point in space, but the effect is stationary unless cast on a mobile object. The spell can be centered on a creature, and the effect then radiates from the creature and moves as it moves. An unwilling creature can attempt a Will save to negate the spell and can use SR, if any. Items in a creature’s possession or magic items that emit sound receive saves and SR, and unattended objects and points in space do not.

*Emphasis mine

It's all I could find right now. But sonic attacks do use sound to deal damage.

 

[smetzger]

It's all I could find right now. But sonic attacks do use sound to deal damage.

No they don't.

Silence will protect you from the secondary effect of 'natural' sonic attacks of deafness, but not the actual damage.

 

[guido1999]

No they don't.

How do you figure that? Even sonic waves that are so high pitched you can't hear them still come from sound, which travels in waves, i.e. soundwaves.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

The three DMs in my playing group all agreed that Energy Substitution (Sonic) would not be available, although the other forms of Energy Substitution would be. I am one of those DMs, but raised the issue of the feat's game balance when I proposed that my wizard character in one of the other DM's games take the feat. The Sonic version of the feat simply has an unbalancing effect on the effectiveness of damaging spells.

Is it really unbalancing? Or merely adequately effective?

My experience at higher levels is the same as Sinjin's. Besides the high SRs I keep banging up against, creatures have good saves and oodles of resistances and immunities. Many creatures are intelligent and spellcasting, quite capable of buttressing their defenses with energy warding spells. I would consider it darn good luck if a Maximized Fireball did even 10 points of damage to a monster, and I am going up against beasties with 200 HPs.

If...
there is a 50% chance of SR dissapating the spell...
AND there is a 50% chance a weird beastie is immune or near immune to an energy type like Fire...
AND the critter is going to make its save 50% of the time...
what is my expected damage? Approximately 19%.

What is my expected damage if I throw a Sonicball instead? 38%. Is that scandalously high? In my book, that is just good enough I might bother with direct damage.

I am playing a mid-level wizard now, and I am thoroughly underwhelmed by my Fireballs, even though I am not seeing much in the way of immunities or SR. My Fireballs are hitting for 60%-70% damage on average. If I took the testimony I hear here on face value, then Fireballs must be "broken"... Or is it that Sonicball barely passes muster at high levels?

 

[Celebrim]

RC: While I think you have a good point, it is somewhat tangential to what I'm saying.

I agree that fireball is on the list of things broken in 1st edition (along with elves and rangers), which the designers of 3rd edition in an effort to ensure that they were balanced seemed to have overcompensated on.

I agree that fireball is almost wasted effort in 3rd edition (and to a lesser extent so is almost all of the direct damage spells), and that turning the energy over to sonic 'helps' fix that. But, from my standpoint that is a problem with the underlying direct damage spells, and if that problem needs to be fixed - it should be fixed by modifying the spells or by some other uniform improvement.

All that bothers me is ES (sonics) lack of balance with other ES choices. I'm not really bothered by assisting direct damage as a concept. For instance, I'd have nothing against a feat available to reasonably high level spell casters that gave them +1 or +2 damage per dice on all energy spells of a particular type. That would solve the lack of punch with direct damage spells much more directly and much more uniformly than ES (sonic).

 

[Arnwyn]

It's a too-good feat, IMO.

Sonic "fireballs" all the way, baby. Virtually nothing is immune/resistant to sonic damage. A spellcaster would have to be nuts not to take this feat if they have any elemental damage spells.