Please test Grapple

[spidey64]

I think that there will be options down the road to make a grapple master style character. Probably through feats and what not like a few others have already said.

But that looks like how it's gonna be, you get a few standard options (take the rogue tactics for example: artful dodger and brutal scoundrel), but to go further you will need to delve into feats.

And that's not taking into account paragon paths.

I had a giggle. Though to be fair, a halfling with the grapple mod of a frost giant would be a god compared to Royce Gracie.

Rickson........er, halfling by armbar?

 

[Lizard]

No.

Any high school bully can grab a nerd by his shirt, but that doesn't make him Royce Gracie. Beyond basic grabs, you should have powers, just like you do beyond basic attacks.

Call CNN. I agree with Mourn.

The more 'cool stuff' you can do by default, the less room there is for character individuation on a mechanical level -- and that matters to me. I don't want my 'shtick' usurped by someone else because it 'sounds cool' and the rules don't distinguish between who can do it.

Because I don't like 'magic walls of inability', I would generally let players *try* things they're not trained to do, but at a penalty or the risk of an attack. In 3x, an untrained grappler had a rough time of it. In 4e, if someone did a Grab and then tried to do something which was covered by a Talent/Power that they didn't have but would "logically" be able to do, I'd probably set a general DC equal to 'very hard' for that level (given scaling competence, I'm guess DCs will scale by level as well -- a hard task for 1st level character might be DC 18, for a tenth level character, DC 25), with the caveat that 'everyone will have combat advantage over you for the next round if you fail'.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

you should be able to TRY to push someone if you are not trained in it. Thats basically what 3.x rules were. Your chances to even try with basic rules were so restricting that it was suicide in most cases.

Some more general rules would have been sufficient (push someone: try strength attack vs fortitude without a bonus, remember: trained people get bonuses, maybe suffering an AOO OA)

 

[FourthBear]

I will note that the logical result of "All non-magical combat options should be available to everyone" is that any characters with only non-magical options will never be able to gain qualitative abilities that they did not already have at 1st level. Frankly, I'm all for letting martial characters have powers that go well outside what's mundane, but if a 20th level fighter has only powers that duplicate abilities that he had at 1st level with bigger numbers, he's going to have issues standing side by side with the magical characters who gain qualitatively new powers as they ascend in level.

 

[Kwalish Kid]

In 3x, sure.

In 4e, it seems it will be a standard attack. Assuming the halfling and the giant are the same level, it will be 50/50 or so to succeed. If there's a Strength modifier involved, the giant *might* have a chance, but without a size mod as well, it's going to lead to some silliness...I mean, more than is usual for D&D.

This is a perfect example of pessimistic speculation that is entirely contrary to the information available. If the grab rules are those in Saga edition, then the halfling simply cannot grab the giant, end of story.

 

[Kwalish Kid]

Double post

 

[The Little Raven]

Call CNN. I agree with Mourn.

There's hope for you, yet!

 

[Kunimatyu]

Melora (who the $%&! is that?) is cool. Uh huh? Meiliki, Obad Hai, and Ehlonna are not. Uh huh.

I'm not sure about this Obad-hai character, but Melikki and Ehlonna have never been cool.

Didn't you get the memo?

Also, unless Halflings are now Medium, you have to be within one size category to grapple. A halfling can grapple a human and immobilize them, but that ain't happening when he tries to grapple our buddy Sven the Frost Giant.

 

[Lizard]

I'm not sure about this Obad-hai character, but Melikki and Ehlonna have never been cool.

Didn't you get the memo?

Also, unless Halflings are now Medium, you have to be within one size category to grapple. A halfling can grapple a human and immobilize them, but that ain't happening when he tries to grapple our buddy Sven the Frost Giant.

Is this in the 4e rules, or is it assumed it will be that way because of how SWSE edition is?

4e isn't quite "SWSE Fantasy", that much is clear already.

 

[The Little Raven]

Is this in the 4e rules, or is it assumed it will be that way because of how SWSE edition is?

Probably assumed, though it would make sense for it to exist.

4e isn't quite "SWSE Fantasy", that much is clear already.

The comments about them "4eing SWSE" if there's enough demand for it are interesting, and I actually hope they do it. SWSE is a pretty good game, but 4e just looks (uh-oh!) cooler. If some of that cool can be reworked into a revised SWSE, then that'd be awesome. Otherwise, I know I'll be picking 4e apart in order to make my own space opera-style game.