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Podcast #225: What We Would Change in Dragonlance

This week, Morrus, Peter, and Jessica talk about what they’d change in the Dragonlance setting. In the news, more Dragonlance previews, new Dungeons & Dragons toys announced, the original Forgotten Realms map found, CY_BORG hardcover release, and more! Plus a brand new sketch about a party member’s disappointing performance. Subscribe on iTunes | Google Play | YouTube | TuneIn | Stitcher |...

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This week, Morrus, Peter, and Jessica talk about what they’d change in the Dragonlance setting. In the news, more Dragonlance previews, new Dungeons & Dragons toys announced, the original Forgotten Realms map found, CY_BORG hardcover release, and more! Plus a brand new sketch about a party member’s disappointing performance.

DragonlanceLordSothTheDarthVaderofDeadGuys.png


Subscribe on iTunes | Google Play | YouTube | TuneIn | Stitcher | Blubrry | Podbean | Spotify | Android


This week, Morrus, Peter, and Jessica talk about what they’d change in the Dragonlance setting. In the news, more Dragonlance previews, new Dungeons & Dragons toys announced, the original Forgotten Realms map found, CY_BORG hardcover release, and more! Plus a brand new sketch about a party member’s disappointing performance.

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News

Peter will guest on a charity live stream on Sunday, November 6
Introducing Dragonlance’s Iconic – And Upgradedc! – Death Knight, Lord Soth! Dragonlance - Introducing Dragonlance's Iconic - And Upgraded! - Death Knight, Lord Soth!

Dragonlance: Solamnic Knights & Mages of High Sorcery Preview Dragonlance - Dragonlance: Solamnic Knights & Mages of High Sorcery Preview

Coverage of the posted-then-removed Wizards of the Coast video on the Flying Citadel Dragonlance - WotC Talks About Dragonlance's Flying Citadel

Dragonlance Creators Reveal Why There Are No Orcs on Krynn Dragonlance - Dragonlance Creators Reveal Why There Are No Orcs On Krynn

First Map of the Forgotten Realms D&D General - The First Map of the Forgotten Realms

News Digest for the Week of November 4 (Dicelings dice transformers, ESPN SportsCenter segment on D&D, Noble Knight Games refuses to voluntarily recognize employee union, Penguin Random House and Simon & Schuster Merger Blocked, CY_BORG hardcover announced) News Digest for the Week of November 4

Heroes Old and New from Roll Them Bones Gaming for Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition Heroes Old and New - Roll them Bones Gaming | DriveThruRPG.com

Cowboy Bebop The Roleplaying Game https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/manaprojectstudio/cowboy-bebop-the-roleplaying-game

Kids on Bikes 2nd Edition https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/huntersbooks/kids-on-bikes-second-edition

Pinebox Middle School & The Horror Companion Double Feature https://www.kickstarter.com/project...chool-and-the-horror-companion-double-feature

The Copy-editor’s Guide to Writing D&D by Danny Kodicek The Copy-editor's Guide to Writing D&D - Dungeon Masters Guild | Dungeon Masters Guild

Koriko: A Magical Year https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jhrrsn/koriko-a-magical-year

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What We’d Update About Dragonlance

Dragonlance: Shadow of the Dragon Queen Dragonlance: Shadow of the Dragon Queen (Dungeons & Dragons Adventure Book): Wizards RPG Team: 9780786968282: Amazon.com: Books

Dragons of Autumn Twilight: Dragonlance Chronicles Book 1 Amazon.com: Dragons of Autumn Twilight: Dragonlance: Chronicles, Book 1 (Audible Audio Edition): Margaret Weis, Paul Boehmer, Tracy Hickman, Audible Studios: Audible Books & Originals

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Please support us on Patreon at http://patreon.com/morrus

Don’t forget to join the Morrus’ Unofficial Tabletop RPG Talk Facebook group at https://www.facebook.com/groups/1033145023517295/ and join us on Discord at https://discord.gg/VAuxX8M

Ask your Awfully Cheerful Question on Twitter using the hashtag #AwfullyCheerfulQuestion, email morruspodcast@gmail.com, or contact us on TikTok at TikTok

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Hosts: Russ “Morrus” Morrissey, Peter Coffey, and Jessica Hancock

Editing and post-production: Darryl Mott

Theme Song: Steve Arnott

Malach the Maleficent played by Darren Morrissey

Check out all the media content from EN World at http://enliverpg.com
 

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Darryl Mott

Darryl Mott

The challenge with gully dwarves and kender is the idea of race having innate disabilities, whether it’s from a magical curse or not. I like their solution that the kleptomania or gully’s ignorance are more of a cultural thing than a product of race.
Strange that in a world full of magic, the story of magic corrupting a species is disallowed.
How sad and poor for storytelling.

I cannot wait for the upgrade to VtM, when the decision is made that an entire bloodline like the Nosferatu cannot be cursed to be hideous. 🤦‍♂️
 

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Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
It's valid to have a differing viewpoint on issues of ableism, but those of you who have decided that the correct approach is to openly mock or deride those who suggest that such issues be given some thought had better knock it off, before they're disinvited. If your response to this topic is vitriol or sarcasm, I highly recommend not posting.
 

The challenge with gully dwarves and kender is the idea of race having innate disabilities, whether it’s from a magical curse or not. I like their solution that the kleptomania or gully’s ignorance are more of a cultural thing than a product of race.
Personally, the issue I have with gully dwarves is some of the game books have stated they're the result of gnome and dwarf inter-breeding and such inter-breeding was banned after seeing the result. There's just no way to justify that as being an ok things to put in a game book, they could have stuck with them just being another offshoot of the Graygem alterations and they ended up poor and living in the leftover spaces just due to bad luck or whatever. Why couldn't they just be something closer to kobolds, which have their own unique traits and still tend to live in less desirable places?
 

whimsychris123

Adventurer
You "think"? You don't know? Here, let's take a look. Laurana. Not buxom, not scantily clad.


Goldmoon, tastefully drawn.


Just duckduckgo Dragonlance hit images and be disabused of that notion.

Who are the "they" you speak of whose solution was it being cultural, not race?
It wasn't racial. It was a curse laid on dwarves by the graygem. It was magic.
Did WOTC say somewhere they were changing this? Very odd but ultimately irrelevant.
Yes, I "think," I don't know. Just like you don't know the inner thoughts of people or their motivations. Why the tone?

Attached is another example, from the cover of the first (and most popular ) module, of the only female member of the beginning group. Everyone else is wearing pants, and she must be wearing a push-up bra. This "spiritual leader" is obviously sexualized in this picture. I agree with you that the actual portrayals of the characters in the stories themselves are fine, but the art was often sexualizing the women.

She also wears Native American garb but clearly doesn't look Native American. This may be another reason why some people take issue.

The "they" I speak of are the commentators in the podcast, the current topic of conversation. And like I said, it doesn't matter if the race is the way it is because of magic. You still have races of people with intellectual disabilities or thieving behavior, which smacks of real-world racist viewpoints. It doesn't matter if they carry the mark of Cain or whatever equivalent curse (in this case, chaos orbs) has been placed on them. That's why I like the commentator's solution that these groups are the way they are not because of race, but because of culture. But I agree with you that the actual portrayal of these characters is less ableist than the commentators suggest.
 

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You "think"? You don't know? Here, let's take a look. Laurana. Not buxom, not scantily clad.


Goldmoon, tastefully drawn.


Just duckduckgo Dragonlance hit images and be disabused of that notion.

Who are the "they" you speak of whose solution was it being cultural, not race?
It wasn't racial. It was a curse laid on dwarves by the graygem. It was magic.
Did WOTC say somewhere they were changing this? Very odd but ultimately irrelevant.
You're conveniently leaving out the first painting of Goldmoon on the cover of DL1 Dragons of Despair. Bare legs aren't exactly how I'd imagine a priestess going into battle against a dragon. Also the Goldmoon painting you refer to as tastefully drawn still has wearing a pretty low cut top. Want to know what probably depicts a woman better? Goldmoon as depicted on the cover of New Tales:
9781560766070-us.jpg

Or how she's shown in this painting:
riverwindandgoldmoon_1100-800x445.jpg

Or the revised cover of Dragons of Autumn Twilight:
b5824600-c0ee-47aa-b7f4-e49e4e952ef9.ecd66cd0946655dc381e00d41d698e8a.jpeg


As for Laurana, I'm guessing you're aware of this one as well:
Dragons-of-Triumph.jpg


There were plenty of early DL paintings that many people feel objectify women, which as you've noted was a series that featured strong women in key roles. I can't think of a painting that shows Kitiara sexualized in anyway for example so art depicting them like that wasn't needed at all.
 

She also wears Native American garb but clearly doesn't look Native American. This may be another reason why some people take issue.
That's a huge issue for some people too and it's a pretty easy one to change without impacting the character much. Maybe the name Goldmoon doesn't make sense if she's dark haired like the rest of her people are described, but you can still leave pretty much everything else about her story intact.
 




whimsychris123

Adventurer
That's a huge issue for some people too and it's a pretty easy one to change without impacting the character much. Maybe the name Goldmoon doesn't make sense if she's dark haired like the rest of her people are described, but you can still leave pretty much everything else about her story intact.
There’s a lot of reasons that a woman might be called Goldmoon besides her hair color. I know that’s the reason stated in the book, but it need not be so. I think you could leave the essential parts of the characters intact while giving them more of an authentic indigenous portrayal.
 

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