point buy

[Laslo Tremaine]

The below characters are in my game. The numbers include bonus points for 4th and 8th levels, but do not include any magic items. Were the numbers rolled or bought? [You might be surprised, here.]

8, 12, 18, 18, 10, 8

10, 14, 14, 12, 17, 10

10, 20, 12, 14, 10, 10

18, 14, 10, 10, 14, 8

18, 14, 12, 14, 10, 10

Are they diverse or all the same? Plain vanilla or swirled flavors? Are they random or ordered?

Quasqueton

Okay, I'll bite. I assume that the above stats also include racial mods, so that makes it a bit trickier. But for me the big give away is that (with one exception) all of the stats are even. That, to me, screams point buy. Now if you had removed the bonuses for leveling and racial stats it would have been much easier.

Was I right?

And for comparison, here is my current group at 7th level with bonus point and racial mods). Point-buy or rolled?

10, 10, 18, 12, 17, 8
21, 12, 16, 6, 8, 6
16, 14, 16, 13, 10, 6
8, 14, 10, 19, 10, 12
12, 16, 13, 13, 13, 12

 

[qstor]

I don't care for point-buy at all. In addition to what you described, it also tends to lead to min-maxing, or encourage it anyways.

Nisarg

I love it as a player it give me a bit of freedom over the stats. I love it as a GM since it makes the characters equal at the starting point. I play a lot of LG so I'm used to it for my PC's that I play.
I use it in my home games as well. One of the best things in 3.0/3.5 IMHO

Mike

 

[Swiftbrook]

I stole this off the last "point buy" thread I read.

Organic Point-Buy

Here's how it works:

● First the DM determines the point-buy standard he's using for his campaign. We often go with 28 points.
● A player rolls 3d6 straight down in the order of the stats (Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Cha). He might roll 11, 4, 12, 7, 10, 14.
● Next, he adds up the points as though he were using the standard point-buy system, adding points back for stats lower than 8. The above stats add up to a total of 10 points already "spent" - 11 (-3), 4 (+4), 12 (-4), 7 (+1), 10 (-2), 14 (-6). This character would then have 18 points left to buy up his stats as he desired,
● The player also gets a free one-time stat swap, such as trading Str for Cha if he wanted to be a fighter. But now this fighter has an 11 Cha instead of the 8 he'd have had if the player had used normal point buy.
● Once stats are swapped and bought up, the character applies any racial modifiers as appropriate.
● If a lucky player rolls a greater than 28-point character on the dice, which is rare but known to happen, he gets to keep his stats and gets 4 freebie points to spend on point-buy; all characters always get at least 4 points to spend, even if they're over. In this way a player can always have some ability to tweak his starting stats.

The stats are random enough for the DM so that not every character archetype has ideal stats, and flexible enough such that the player can still create a character he wants to play, within limits.

-Swiftbrook

Just my 2 CP today

 

[AFGNCAAP]

Generally, I use a mix of the two:

Players may roll 2-3 sets of 4d6k3 stats; if they just roll bad & don't have any high stats (esp. for a character that's supposed to be a primary caster or has access to a 0-9 spell list), or way too many low stats, then they may opt to use 32-point-buy. For any pre-gens, I strictly use 32-point-buy. I mainly use 32-point-buy for key NPCs/foes, and 25- or 28-point-buy for nameless mooks or a member of the masses.

I'm very tempted to switch over completely to point-buy. So far, it really hasn't been an issue yet. However, we have had a semi-regular player in the past who's been known to "augment" his dice rolls, esp. when he isn't being observed by anyone (which, according to this player, being watched by someone "jinxes" his dice rolls. :\ ). If he regularly attends again (or if any of the current players prove to be just as bad), I'm strictly using 32-point-buy.

I think that the reason why it really works for me is due to the scaled cost of higher scores: having an 18 in an ability score (pre-racial mods) is expensive, to say the least--it may be a sound strategy in some instances (for clerics, wizards, druids, sorcerers, psions, or any other classes with a 0-9 spell/power list), but in others, it can be downright painful (playing a class that utilizes multiple abilities for class talents/niches, like paladins).

At the very least, point-buy allows a player to build an effective PC off the bat (with no worries about being able to at least roll what he/she needs/wants stat-wise), and have a certain degree of control of what goes where. And it gives all the players to create a decent, useful PC (opportunity being the key word--bad choices on the player's part will be an issue down the line).

 

[Ogre Mage]

Here is what has worked well for our group.

First, the characters roll 4d6 drop lowest. If they do not like their stats, they may use 32 PB instead.

This way, the characters have the fun of rolling stats but if they roll poorly they still have 32 PB to fall back on. That way, no one winds up with a sub-optimal character who can't keep up.

 

[S'mon]

As GM I like 35-PB, players can create (pretty good) PCs w/out GM supervision.

 

[S'mon]

Here is what has worked well for our group.

First, the characters roll 4d6 drop lowest. If they do not like their stats, they may use 32 PB instead.

This way, the characters have the fun of rolling stats but if they roll poorly they still have 32 PB to fall back on. That way, no one winds up with a sub-optimal character who can't keep up.

I think best-of roll or PB is a very good approach, yup.

 

[reanjr]

How do you all feel about point buy systems for character generation? I personally don't like them much, you end up with a bunch of vanilla characters wose abilities are all about the same (a 15, a couple of 14s, and a couple of 12s), even with the "high" point buy. No diversity at all. I personally feel rolling generates more diverse characters, you get soem good ones and some bad ones or maybe you get lucky (or unlucky for that matter). Even just assigning abilites yourself (most of us are mature enought not to just give a PC straight 18s).

Enogh of my rantings, I just want to see if how other people feel. Why do people like point buy systems?

Point buy as a concept is alright, but the standard point buy system sucks. Try this:

3 -9
4 -6
5 -4
6 -2
7 -1
8 0
9 1
10 2
11 4
12 6
13 9
14 12
15 16
16 20
17 25
18 30

70 Points for uber gamers, 60 for standard.

Gives alot more variety, in my experience.

 

[Ibram]

For most long term games I use a 28 point buy, this is largely because it helps me balance the encounters (I can build chumps to have less points, and more important guys can have more). I can understant the lure of the 4d6k3 system as I used it in game I played a few weeks ago (it was a one shot, and the players had never played D&D before).

 

[Whisper72]

I personally like the whole rolling thing, using the 4d6, 7 times variant. Also simply for flavor and the excitement of rolling. If a really crappy set of stats comes out which the player will not like to play, I let them re-roll. High stats are not an issue AFAIAC, as I also like the characters in the campaigns I DM for to be heroic, and the whole CR/ECL stuff is something I never look at.

The whole balance stuff is highly overrated in my book, especially among characters. A few points more or less does not a less cool PC make. A sucky player behind the stats, whether they be high or low do...

Since the types of encounters I put in front of my players usually have multiple solutions, and I allow for smart use of everything any PC can think of, the effectiveness of the characters is rarely a matter of statistics.