point buy

[Will]

I refuse to play a game without point buy, for all the stated reasons.

I once played in an odd and excellent game through online chat. All three players had 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8 spread. We were all elves.

We had a martial cleric, a monk/rogue, and a wizard, and our stats didn't look at all alike.

'Stats all end up the same' as a problem might be valid for some groups, but I suspect not that many.

 

[Nightchill]

In 2nd ed, I rolled. 3e and 3.5e, point buy all the way (reasons already covered in this thread). The players in my FR used 28pb, the campaign I'm about to play (as a player! my God it's been a while) is 32pb.

 

[orsal]

Point buy as a concept is alright, but the standard point buy system sucks. Try this:

3 -9
4 -6
5 -4
6 -2
7 -1
8 0
9 1
10 2
11 4
12 6
13 9
14 12
15 16
16 20
17 25
18 30

70 Points for uber gamers, 60 for standard.

Gives alot more variety, in my experience.

One problem with both the standard point buy system and yours is that the increase from an odd number to the next even number costs less than the next step to an odd number, even though it's more valuable. If I were to design a point buy scheme I'd do something like
8 -- 0
9 -- 1
10 -- 2
11 -- 3
12 -- 4
13 -- 5
14 -- 7
15 -- 9
16 -- 12
17 -- 15
18 -- 19

Another thing I don't like about your system is that you give too much credit in exchange for taking very low scores. The advantage of the "law of diminishing returns" approach (the more you invest in a particular stat, the less extra benefit you get from increasing that) is that its a disincentive for extreme stats, and therefore leads to a more normal (bell-like) distribution than a linear scale would. You keep this at the high end, but at the low end your system is backwards. I think it's an improvement to allow scores below 8, but I'd sooner have -1/2 per extra point drop, so that minimaxing really requires too much min for relatively little max.

Of course, I already said I'm not a fan of point buy to begin with. But if I were going to do point buy, this is the kind of scheme I'd prefer.

 

[The Cardinal]

...that's why I love GURPS (4e will soon be mine!!!!!!)

 

[Psiblade]

Our group has used point buy for awhile now. We pick the target level of the campaign (usually 28 or 32 points) and go from there. This has made the game so much better. In the past we had characters that would actually dominate the game because their stats were so much better than everyone else.

Point buy is liked because it allows players to design their characters. The players get to play the characters that they like and are no stronger stat wise than anybody else. We range in character types from one campaign from a human bard (dam that rapier is heavy) to a dwarven fighter/barb (I will just break down the portcullis). Point buy also allows the DM a lot of control over the power level of the game. The characters generated by a 25 point game are radically different than a 32 point game. I do not think that we are ever going to go back to die rolling for character generation.

-Psiblade

 

[Coredump]

I prefer rolling. I don't understand players whining about stats, they rolled them, they can live with it. If they are going to whine about stats, they will whine about everything else in the game...get ready for babysitting, or get rid of them.

I am in a game, and one player rolled crazy good. Great for him, I get to be in a group with a powerful player, good for me. I can still be effective, and still have fun. There is a bit too much 'cookie cutter' feel when we all have to start the same. Pick 3 of your friends that will get sent from earth to an 'alternate' world. Do you really think you all have the 'same point buy'?



Now, the one reason I might do point buy.... is a suggestion I saw on the Kenzerco.com boards. (Kalamar) It was to give bonus points for picking or doing certain things. It allows you to tailor your campaign, while not forcing anyone to do anything. Lets say I wanted a human centric campaign, based in a certian area.

25 pt buy
bonus points:
2 for being human
1 for being from Eldoboran region
1 for being from a small town
1 for writing a one page character history
2 (total) for writing a 3 page history
1 for listing 5 non-related npc's in your past
1 for only using Core material
1 for whatever else I can think of.....


These are just examples, and may or may not fit into your campaign. But I love the idea.

I may do both. Roll 3d6, and then augment them by 'buying' with the bonus points...hmmm....
.

 

[Zimri]

4d6 drop lowest roll till you're happy with them and you can do it at home or wherever prior to the game starting. have your character ready to go by 8pm Saturday unless you haven't had a chance to ask the DM about something from a book you aren't sure he'll allow.

Some players abuse this, some don't. Nobody whines and we all have fun. Having fun would seem to be the point. The DM knows what we are capable and will buff up modules he buys, and will make NPCs for adventures he creates with our abilities in mind.

 

[S'mon]

4d6 drop lowest roll till you're happy with them and you can do it at home or wherever prior to the game starting.

I used to do this. When I audited the PCs, PCs created by this method averaged 50 pts (several PCs had 49-pts) with a low of 47 pts and a high of 56 pts.

 

[Zimri]

I used to do this. When I audited the PCs, PCs created by this method averaged 50 pts (several PCs had 49-pts) with a low of 47 pts and a high of 56 pts.

Used too ?

Were people not having fun, were published adventures cake walks ? I am just curious as to the reason for stopping.

As far as other players being at a disadvantage if the roll low or whatnot I believe I have the best total in the group currently and I am not outshining anyone. The dwarven fighter does combat better, as does the psychic warrior, the cleric and paladin do diplomacy better, the psion and sorceror do things I couldn't ever dream of. The only ways I am better is things miss me more when I am not armored (which is always) and touch/ flatfooted isn't a huge disadvantage for me.

 

[argo]

Point Buy, because it allows the players to make a character that fits their vision while also letting the DM control the power level of the game (and as a DM I make NPC's from standardized arrays that are calibrated against point buy benchmarks, saves a lot of time). The fairness issue of all players being about the same power level is a secondary factor to this.

Actually IME I find that point buy gives a greater variety of characters than rolling, even if their stat blocks all look alike. Rolled characters tend to hew close to iconics because the iconics mostly only require one good stat and most rolling methods will reliably turn up one good stat. Point buy encourages players to try more exotic combinations because they can taylor their stats to the needs of the character build.