Poison DC, damage, and cost

I was looking at the table and wondering, "is there some kind of formula to figure out the cost of a poison based on its DC and ability damage it causes"

If there is i couldn't find it at all. I was wondering if anyone knows of a such formula because its actually kind of important for my game. I'm trying to get the general prices for everything in the (black) markets and this is one thing that illudes me
 

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Conaill

First Post
DreamReality Press used to have a free download with a so-so system for calculating poison values. AFAIK, they're no longer in business. Unfortunately, the file is copyrighted, so I can't just post it here. The gist of it is that they calculated a "base price" based on damage (hp, ability or special conditions like unconsciousness), multiplied that by the poison DC and added +10% for Contact or Injury, -10% for Ingested.
 

Conaill

First Post
Aha! I did track down an email I sent the DRP guys about their poison system. Don't think I'll break any copyright laws reposting that one:
Thanks for the "Calculating Poison Values" free pdf. I have a feeling this is going to come in very handy...

I have been collecting a list of Poisons from various sources myself, and doing some reverse engineering to fill in missing market prices or Craft DC's. Ideally, we would like all of these disparate sources to be compatible

so naturally I have a few questions and comments, if you don't mind:

1) Just out of curiosity, what did you base the base price and modifier values on? I've noticed it's reasonably well balanced with the poisons in the DMG, but there's definitely still some room for improvement.

2) Your estimate for Inhaled poisons seems too cheap without a Price Modifier. To fit the three in the DMG, you would need at least a +10%, up to +100% for Ungol Dust. Just chalk it up to them being harder to collect, prepare and handle.

3) The Estimates for Ingested Poisons are way too expensive with only a -10% modifier. It seems like you would need something like -60% to -80%, based on the poisons in the DMG. This is entirely realistic, as ingested poisons are much more common and much easier to make than any other kind.

4) The Conditions table seems rather arbitrary. For example, "Unconsciousness" should be worth AT LEAST as much as "Paralysis". AFAIK, a Paralyzed person can still perform purely mental tasks (like casting a Still, Silent spell), not to mention observe his environment. Unconsciousness seems worse in all aspects. (Besides, the standard duration for Paralysis is 2d6 minutes, while for Unconsciousness it is 1d3 *hours*!)

5) Likewise, the only difference between Sleep and Unconsciousness seems to be that a Sleeping creature can be easily woken up (see Sleep spell). So Sleep should be worth LESS than Unconsciousness. I would put Paralysis at 5 points, Sleep at 10 and Unconsciousness at 15 (or at least in that order).

6) Some of the conditions could use a duration indicator. For example, there are poisons that Blind or Deafen for only a few rounds. These should DEFINITELY not be priced as highly as Unconsciousness. In fact, given that all poison effects are temporary by default, I would value Blindness and Deafness at about 2/3 and 1/3 of the value of Paralysis. (With the usual increase for permanent effects - perhaps higher than x2?)

7) In combat, Primary damage is typically much more important than Secondary. I think it would be fair to halve the point value for secondary.

8) Traps and Treachery has an implicit pricing scheme for new poisons. In fact, they have a scheme to calculate the Craft DC to invent a new poison, but the market price of that new poison is then based on that initial Craft DC. You may want to have a look at theirs for inspiration. Overall, I think your method will probably scale better. I do like T&T's damage table better, because it is more complete (no lumping of damage dice for hp damage, 1 point is less damage than d2, goes up to 3d6, split by initial/secondary). I would suggest using the same table for hp and ability damage, and simply divide the cost in half for hp damage.
 

Grazzt

Demon Lord
I asked someone quite a while back (SKR or Monte Cook, IIRC) about the poison "rules" in the DMG. There is no formula or rhyme or reason why they are what they are. They just did what felt right at the time.

The DRP download would be the best bet it seems.
 


Conaill

First Post
Lacunae - or anyone else with a copy of QuintRogue - how does that poison system compare with the DRP one, or the one in Traps & Treachery? If you don't have either of those, could you give a brief summary of how it works?
 

lacunae

First Post
Basically, TQR describes a system for the creation of poisons using the Craft (Poisons) skill. The process is as follows: Determine: 1. Effects, 2. Delivery Method, 3. Save Type/DC, 4. Spot DC, 5. Special Effects, 6. Final Gold Piece Cost. Craft DCs are then given relative to cost. Each variable is discussed in brief detail. The book also gives 21 new sample poisons.

I am using this system in my current campaign and it seems to work OK, although allowing players to take 10 on the Craft check results in pretty easy low-level poison production. The main factor keeping it under control is Cost.

Good luck!
 


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