D&D 5E Poll: Polymorph Shenanigans

[FormerlyHemlock]

Just for fun:

Say you've got a 20th level Shadow Monk with Alert, Mobile, and Lucky feats. A sorcerer Polymorphs her into a Tyrannosaurus Rex. Polymorph explicitly says that she loses her mental statistics (Int/Wis/Cha). It hints that she would retain spellcasting capability if spellcasting weren't impossible in that form. It is silent on all other class abilities. Which feats and class abilities would you rule that she retains, if this happened at your table?

-Max

N.b. Shapechange explicitly says that mental ability scores and skill/saving throw proficiencies are additionally retained. It then discusses HP for a while before mentioning that class abilities are specifically retained. While it seems pretty clear to me that the weaker version (Polymorph) should therefore not grant saving throw/skill proficiencies, the way Shapechange is written does not appear to lump class abilities in as things that are retained only with the 9th level version. Hence this thought experiment/poll.

 

[I'm A Banana]

None of the above.

There's one key phrase: "The target's game statistics...are replaced by the statistics of the chosen beast."

To me, that means no class features or feats or bonuses from any source apply - your statblock becomes the beast's statblock, period. Anything you knew how to do before, you don't know how to do now.

That makes it a very situational buff, mostly useful for the extra HP's, and occasionally if your mage wants to tank or something odd.

It's more useful with this interpretation as a debuff - a beholder turned into a slug or a banshee turned into a chicken don't retain their monstrous abilities, either.

It hints that she would retain spellcasting capability if spellcasting weren't impossible in that form

It's pretty explicit - the target can't cast spells in the new form. Even if you polymorph them into some weird beast that could cast spells for some reason, they couldn't.

This may mean I am a buzzkill. I'm pretty comfortable with this only being a single-target enemy control spell in practice and not "what weird junk can you come up with" time.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

To me, that means no class features or feats or bonuses from any source apply - your statblock becomes the beast's statblock, period. Anything you knew how to do before, you don't know how to do now.

So, if the monk had Empty Body already activated and was also Hasted at the time when the spell was cast, would you have both those effects be cancelled when the Polymorph went off?

 

[DaveDash]

When you Polymorph you put aside your own character sheet and take the print out of the T-Rex, and that's you.

EDIT: If you had spells like haste/stoneskin/etc on before you were polymorphed I assume those spells come across, but I am not 100% sure. Depends how literal the DM wants to be about "The targets game statistics are replaced with....".

If you had effects that were granted to you by a class feature (not spells), I'd assume those abilities don't come across, since those abilities have now been "deactivated".

 

[Sacrosanct]

I can shoot a basketball, do a handstand, and many other things right now that I wouldn't know how to do with a radically different body. And if I lose my knowledge too due to low int and wis?

put me in the camp of those who think you lose class abilities when polymorfed

 

[Lancelot]

Add me to the camp of those who would rule it as "no class abilities come across".

There are many reasons for doing this, and here are only some of them:
1) Simplicity. Put your character sheet to one side. Pick up the monster stat block. Simple. Any spell complex enough to start applying 20-level character templates to hundreds of monsters "on the fly" has no place at my table.
2) Testability. It's simply unreasonable to expect that the game designers should test out every possible combination of all class abilities with all monster types. There are going to be broken combos. And yet, WotC will cop the blame the second people start running inviso-flurry tyranno-monks as standard. "Why didn't they test this? Why do they allow this?" We have enough community rage without giving it another outlet.
3) Variety. This may seem counter-intuitive, but allowing character abilities to come across actually reduces the number of options for a character to turn into, because of the Internet. There will be broken combos out there. People will build characters simply for the ruling that class ability X works with monster type Y, which results in Z damage-per-second. And as soon as people start running analyses on this, the builds begin to appear online... and certain monster choices become popularized because they become iconic. "What? You're not running the classic tyranno-monk build with inviso-flurry? Newb..."
4) Balance between Classes. Bringing across class abilities massively benefits some classes at the expense of other classes, which is something my players hate. It's not about balance versus the encounters, because any good DM can always adjust the monsters on the fly to provide a greater challenge. But players hate being overshadowed by other players. A monk loves this ruling. A wizard hates it. A fighter who's all about polearms hates the ruling. A rogue loves it, because of cunning actions and sneak attack and what-have-you. It messes with the balance between classes.

Now, if your players are non-munchkins who don't care about balance and just want to see cool stuff happen, then go for it. The inviso-flurry tyranno-monk sounds pretty cool for a one-off fun concept. I'd love to read about it in a comic book. But please make that a DM call for your game. I want no part of it in the formal PH rules, because my players ARE munchkins who care about balance, and this would cause real-world violence at my table.

 

[miniaturehoarder]

IMO Monk abilities come from mastery of their own bodies, change bodies, no abilities.

 

[evilives]

None of the above. Polymorph replaces any and all class and race features (including feats) with those of the assumed form. Turn into a Tyrannosaur? Grab the Monster Manual and check out the stat block on page 80. That's you for the duration.

 

[Li Shenron]

None of the above.

As a starting point, I would go with this.

Then maybe gradually we can allow something to be retained, and test it out that it doesn't cause problems and still makes enough sense narratively.

However if the spell says you retain your mind, certainly I would let the PC keep her Knowledge proficiencies. Also "spiritual" abilities if any would stay, e.g. if your race is somewhat celestial and has intrinsic defenses against evil.

 

[Celtavian]

I might let them use quite a few of their class abilities. Not because I think the rules allow it, but because it would make me laugh. A T-Rex monk would be hilarious.