D&D (2024) Poll: Will WOTC change the way cantrips scale for multiclass characters?

[ezo]

Side note about the expected % hit rate in 5e- as characters advance in levels they gain bonuses to hit through higher stats, higher proficiency bonus (not including magic item +s).. but enemy ACs don't really rise to match them.

Actually, on average they do IMO. Magic items are the only thing that make a difference. Depending on just how you break down the tiers:

Tier 1: bonus +5, AC 13, need 8
Tier 2: bonus +7, AC 15, need 8
Tier 3: bonus +9, AC 17, need 8
Tier 4: bonus +11, AC 19, need 8

Each tier effectively adding a +1 for proficiency and a +1 for higher ability scores, leaning more towards proficiency since it increases more (4 points), compared to ability scores (2 points). IME stats being at +3, +5 by tier 3.

It is pretty much 65%, +/- 5%. Occasionally you might get an extra 5% swing depending on the PC. Since few features grant bonuses to hit, it is relatively consistent.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Actually, on average they do IMO

Some do, some don't. And casters generally have a range of tools they can use. They pull out the attack roll spells when faced with an enemy with a low AC, high saves, or immunities. E.g. Elder Brain, CR 14, AC 10, very high saves.

 

[Horwath]

I think we can assume the caster will be using an attack roll cantrip when the hit chance is advantageous. They have plenty of other options for when it is not.

then we can assume that about every single attack in game.

If I have an advantage as a caster, I would certainly used it for attacking with highest level attack spell, I would not used it to increase 10,7 to 15,5 damage. it is still worst possible (attack)action at 11th level to take.

 

[Horwath]

Side note about the expected % hit rate in 5e- as characters advance in levels they gain bonuses to hit through higher stats, higher proficiency bonus (not including magic item +s).. but enemy ACs don't really rise to match them.

even if it's 95% hit rate for cantrips,

it's then 16,5 average damage for spending an Action as a 11th level caster.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

then we can assume that about every single attack in game.

Non-casters can only attack. Casters have other options.

If I have an advantage as a caster, I would certainly used it for attacking with highest level attack spell, I would not used it to increase 10,7 to 15,5 damage. it is still worst possible (attack)action at 11th level to take.

The caster's highest level spells probably all require saving throws, not attack rolls, so having advantage would be no advantage. There aren't all that many high level spells that have attack rolls.

Not a lot of point burning through spell slots when the target is just going to save, and take at most half damage. A level 5 Blight would average 20 points of damage against the Elder Brain, compared to the Fire Bolt's 15.7 (95% chance of hitting AC 10, even without advantage). Blight does more, but it's not enough to make it worth burning a valuable 5th level spell slot.

 

[TwoSix]

Have you ever played with an e6-ish idea? I made a rough draft for e9 a year or two back, but never playtested it.

View attachment 355705View attachment 355706

I've been toying with something similar for my next campaign, just with the level cap at 5 (or maybe 6) and gestalt multiclassing as the primary means of growth.

 

[Distracted DM]

I've been toying with something similar for my next campaign, just with the level cap at 5 (or maybe 6) and gestalt multiclassing as the primary means of growth.

I can't say that that line of growth ever occurred to me.
So basically your HP and class cap at 6 but you can get all the class features

 

[Distracted DM]

then we can assume that about every single attack in game.

I don't think the fighter or rogue are pulling out their dex save-based sword swings when confronted with a big strong heavily armored high-ac enemy..

 

[TwoSix]

I can't say that that line of growth ever occurred to me.
So basically your HP and class cap at 6 but you can get all the class features

Basic idea was this.

-Small amount of starting classes, probably around 8.
-Gaining a level costs 1000 XP per new level in the class. So getting level 1 in a class costs 1000 XP, level 2 costs 2000 XP, etc. Maxing out at 5 would cost 15000 XP total. XP awards would be adjusted from 5e baseline.
-Your "level" is the highest level you have in any one class.
-Max number of classes you could take at the start would be 3 (maybe 4).
-Increasing the level cap for various classes and finding new classes would be a big part of the play loop.

 

[Distracted DM]

Actually, on average they do IMO. Magic items are the only thing that make a difference. Depending on just how you break down the tiers:

Tier 1: bonus +5, AC 13, need 8
Tier 2: bonus +7, AC 15, need 8
Tier 3: bonus +9, AC 17, need 8
Tier 4: bonus +11, AC 19, need 8

Each tier effectively adding a +1 for proficiency and a +1 for higher ability scores, leaning more towards proficiency since it increases more (4 points), compared to ability scores (2 points). IME stats being at +3, +5 by tier 3.

It is pretty much 65%, +/- 5%. Occasionally you might get an extra 5% swing depending on the PC. Since few features grant bonuses to hit, it is relatively consistent.

I guess these ac numbers are averages, but they still don't seem right practically-speaking. there are many high cr monsters that you'll regularly encounter with low ac, but the ones with high ac are much less frequent.