D&D (2024) Poll: Will WOTC change the way cantrips scale for multiclass characters?

[Yaarel]

What prompted this is tonight's game. I am playing a Drow Eldricth Knight 8/Undead Warlock 2/Paladin 2. She is mostly a melee controller using blade cantrips, Form of Dread and War Magic with a Divine Smite or Wrathful Smite thrown in there occasionally. Shen got EB and Hex at level 2 (F1/W1) and Agonizing Blast since level 7 (F5/W2). She used EB occasionally before, but tonight is the first time in the whole campaign I actually cast Hex. We needed some high damage so I went Hex and then action surge and unleashed 6 EB/AB beams with Hex (she also has a 20 Charisma). The DM said "you get 3 Eldritch blasts .... yep it is 3 at 11th level". The DM said "that will be changing soon", meaning with the new PHB.

What do you think. Will WOTC change the way cantrips scale?

On one hand I can see the propensity for abuse, on the other hand this is one of the great things about 5E compared to earlier versions where your cantrips (and to a lessor extent spells) were near useless if you just dipped a caster. Undoing this would just be "not fun" IMO.

I view Eldritch Blast as slightly too powerful for a cantrip. Firebolt 1d10 Fire is fine, but I would rather see 1d8 Force as something comparable.

Probably, the same Agonizing Blast invocation that adds the spellcasting ability to damage, can also boost the Eldritch Blast from 1d8 Force to 1d10 Force. This way, the "special" Warlock use of the cantrip is strictly a class feature.

 

[Parmandur]

Pretty sure that Eldritch Blast will scale with warlock level, but all other cantrips will scale with character level.

Nah, Eldritch Blast will still scale with Character Level, utnwhat makes it really good are Warlock Invocations...which require Warlock Levela.

As a whole, I wouldn't expect any sweeping change to happen that didn't happen in the UA playtest.

 

[ECMO3]

five levels is a dramatic cost compared to options like a first level feat or "I'm an elf"

Sure it is, but that is not really the point I don't think. Be an Elf Fighter and your cantrip scales all the way to 17th level the same as if you were playing an Elf Wizard. I don't get why that is a bad thing, they still aren't getting 9th level spells like a Wizard of that level.

Also with the exception of Eldritch blast we are talking about scaling damage, not scaling attacks with Cantrops. Eldritch Blast is the only cantrip that gives you more attacks and all the Cantrips are pretty weak compared to extra attack when you consider they ability score bonus to weapon attacks.

 

[mellored]

We needed some high damage so I went Hex and then action surge and unleashed 6 EB/AB beams with Hex (she also has a 20 Charisma). The DM said "you get 3 Eldritch blasts .... yep it is 3 at 11th level". The DM said "that will be changing soon", meaning with the new PHB.

Action Surge is changing. You can't cast 2 spells anymore.

Eldritch Blast, so far, isn't.

And really, Eldritch Blast is doing less than a straight archer fighter would. You could of done a good bit more damage with a straight fighter 11 and archery style could of done 6 attacks with higher accuracy and possibly a magic bow. Not to mention weapon mastery.

By multiclassing, she lost a little damage in return for more versatility. Which is fair.

 

[mellored]

If you took the dip for thematics, then it having cantrips scale to caster level and not character would not have impacted your choice. Seems like a good reason to scale by caster level to me...

Your attacks scale with level as your proficiency bonus scales and the scaling is common for all weapon attacks for all classes. Additionally the damage is the same for all weapons at all levels unless you are playing a Monk, meaning there is no scaling on weapon damage.

Extra Attack is a specific class ability (or in some cases a subclass ability) not a core mechanic like the weapons themselves or the cantrips.

Someone who takes a 5 level dip in a class that gets extra attack can use that all the way up to level 20 and their attack rolls scale the same as if they kept taking martial levels.

It wouldn't hurt the game to have weapon damage scale by character level. As long as martials scaled fast of course.

A 3e wizard got 2 attacks vs the fighters 4.
And I built a 4e wizard who charged people with a maul.

You would need to rebuild 5e too much to make it fit, especially since each martial scales differently and stacks.

I.e.
fighter 11/Ranger 3/barbarian 3.
Vs
Sorcerer 11/wizard 3/druid 3.

So it's not going to happen. But fundamental nothing wrong with a wizard being able to multiattack.

 

[tetrasodium]

Sure it is, but that is not really the point I don't think. Be an Elf Fighter and your cantrip scales all the way to 17th level the same as if you were playing an Elf Wizard. I don't get why that is a bad thing, they still aren't getting 9th level spells like a Wizard of that level.

Also with the exception of Eldritch blast we are talking about scaling damage, not scaling attacks with Cantrops. Eldritch Blast is the only cantrip that gives you more attacks and all the Cantrips are pretty weak compared to extra attack when you consider they ability score bonus to weapon attacks.

No it's exactly the point and the reasons for that this necro revival was literally covered a couple weeks back in post 21.

 

[Maxperson]

The fact that you didn't even consider a cantrip that might somehow synergize with or broaden a rogue's capabilities while talking about a hypothetical rogue taking a cantrip speaks volumes about how little thought went into that entire point.

I don't think it speaks to little thought so much as it speaks to viewing combat as king.

What you are describing is a design problem created by 20145e itself...

So now we're just skipping 6th-20144th edition?

 

[Knight_Marshal]

But then again, I've always felt that a pure class character should be the best there is for that class's 'trope', not some mix of classes due to dips and optimization.

If a class's trope is I cast cantrips, then I consider that bad and uninspiring design.

 

[Stormonu]

With spellcasters having leveled spells, I think cantrip spell scaling was a mistake. At best I think cantrip damage should scale at 11th level, and that's it.

Coupled with debloating hit points.

 

[LordEntrails]

If a class's trope is I cast cantrips, then I consider that bad and uninspiring design.

ok? Not sure how that applies to my comment. But I don't disagree with you.