[Poly] What's happening to Polyhedron/Dungeon?

[diaglo]

I wonder what a system with the company's support would look like!

Greyhawk.

the barren wasteland of the RPG industry.

 

[Ranger REG]

Ranger REG, Kenpo Wolf, etc.

Although Poly will be shrinking a little, I'm committed to making it the best I possibly can. I've edited something like 30 issues of Polyhedron in three different incarnations, so it's an understatement to say that I'm a fan of the magazine.

And I appreciated the past effort. But let's be real here. Poly magazine have been a thorn to every Dungeon readers, aka Dungeon Purists. They never wanted it and they'll lobby their asses until not one speck of Poly is printed on THEIR magazine.

I have put up a brave front and accepted the less-than-half magazine because of the non-D&D content that Poly provide, even though the conservative in me keep nagging that I am wasting my money.

During the past few months, when our in-boxes and these message boards have been choked with vitriol from long-time Dungeon fans, posts from you and others like you have saved more than one of my days from slipping into depression. I'm not going to let you down by publishing crap in the magazine, and will do my best to make every issue of Poly as jam-packed with cool d20 stuff as I possibly can, even if there are fewer pages now and again.

It was a hard campaign. I tried to be the loudest supporter, even when you decided to go monthly with 100 pages per issue. Prior to that, it was a 100-plus pages bimonthly issue with less than half the issue devoted to just Poly. Still the Dung Purists complain, while we accept what you can give us.

But it's time I tell you that enough is enough. I have already reached my point of frustration that I have kept bottled up inside.

Some day, the magazine will probably spin off into its own entity again, which will give everyone what they want. Dungeon fans will get a thicker Dungeon with more adventures, and Poly fans will get a big thick magazine filled with d20 goodness. I'll probably be involved in one or both, provided I don't completely crash and burn before then (hasn't happened yet!).

And if that first full-fledged Poly magazine issue hit the newsstand, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. But as it stands now, I can't. I cannot continue to support the combo magazine in the new format you've announced earlier, both ecomomically and ... for lack of a better word, spiritually. My heart is no longer in it.

But the timing's not right for that move right now. Right now, both magazines need each other.

I don't know. To be honest with you, the diminishing Poly content will only result in diminishing Poly readers. IOW, you're going back to the same state as you were before the combo magazine.

It won't always be that way, and I suspect you'll eventually get a lot more d20 content for your buck. But for Poly to remain strong as a section (which we need in order to spin it off eventually), I've got to make decisions about the health of the overall magazine, which includes the Dungeon part, too. Right now, that means cutting down somewhat on Polyhedron pages. I don't know what it'll mean in a year.

But I'm not simply going to abandon Polyhedron or let it fade away.

With all due respect, and this is the hardest thing for me to say as a Poly reader and a d20 gamer (but not with a business mindset), I'd rather the magazine go out in a big bang.

Make the choice and soon, Erik. If it's any consolation, I am glad for what we have so far, and I have bought for and collected every one of the issue that have Poly in it. But I'm tired and I'm frustrated. I'm ready to let it go.

 

[pogre]

Mr. Mona,

I think you are heading in the right direction. I would love to see Dungeon/Poly turn into a d20 adventure magazine with industry news and occasional minigames. Quarterly, if the quality of the mini-games is really high.

When I was heavily into Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay I bought any magazine that had an article or adventure about the game. If your magazine became a d20 adventure magazine the same might be true for folks playing alternative (non D&D) d20 games.

Who wants a Star Wars adventure?

Who wants a Spycraft adventure?

Who wants a d20 CoC adventure?

Heck, I would read them and I do not play those games.

One other thing I think you could do is have a scenario with a mini-game kind of embedded within it. Sidebars with some alternative rules and just rely on the PHB or the Modern for the rest. If the adventure is popular you could have a sequel with a few more rules thrown in and so on.

Love the adventure path BTW.

Keep on keepin on!

 

[Mapmaker]

But let's be real here.

Erik has been nothing but real with us, near as I can tell. He has spoken more candidly about the magazine's prospects and circumstances than most magazine editors would ever do in a public forum such as this, and it speaks volumes about his good character and dedication to the readers.

Dungeon readers, aka Dungeon Purists.

Dungeon readers and Dungeon "purists" are not one and the same.

Still the Dung Purists complain, while we accept what you can give us.

By demanding that Polyhedron be separated from Dungeon and refering to Dungeon in derogatory terms, how is this attitude any different from that which you protest?

With all due respect, and this is the hardest thing for me to say as a Poly reader and a d20 gamer (but not with a business mindset), I'd rather the magazine go out in a big bang.

I think most readers would rather it not "go out" at all...and indeed I see little likelihood that it's even in danger of doing so.

Make the choice and soon, Erik.

If the choice you speak of is Polyhedron or no Polyhedron, I think the choice has already been made, and it's to keep Polyhedron. If you feel that the content of future issues isn't of sufficient quality or quantity to earn your money, the choice of what to do with that money is yours, not Erik's. I think he'd appreciate it, though, if we wait to see that content before we judge it. He's hardly even been in the driver's seat of the whole magazine for a few weeks, and already some of his 'loudest supporters' want to get out and hail a cab? Sheesh. At least let him show us how well he can parallel park...

He's doing the best he can in a complex situation to keep both sides of the magazine prosperous. It has already been established that the magazines can't yet flourish separately, so if we want them to someday reach that state we need to let the folks in charge (who are even more attached to Polyhedron than we are, I assure you) make the tough choices and steer the ship in the right direction. After all, they have a much clearer view of the financial horizon than any of us, and know better than anyone what course changes are necessary to stay on track.

All of this is not to say that feedback should be silenced. On the contrary: voicing an opinion is most definiately a good thing. It's much more helpful, though, if provided in a way that's respectful of the efforts of the people involved.

Anyway, there's my two cents. Make of it what you wish.

 

[Master of the Game]

Erik,

I've always appreciated what you did for/with Poly, and have always been a supporter. Unlike the president of your company, Johnny Wilson, you have never alienated your readers, and have always listened to what we have to say.

That said, I find these changes to be unconscionable. How much did Dungeon sales jump after the inclusion of Polyhedron? That is how many of us subscribed because of what it added.

When it was added we were told, "This is a bonus, we're not taking anything away and giving a hundred free pages of content." Based on that I subscribed.

Then, Paizo split from WoTC and all the promises vanished. "We're going to halve the size of the magazine, after all, it was a favor to give you all that extra content for no extra money." You weren't giving me anything. I subscribed based on that promise. You weren't giving me anything for free, that larger magazine is what I paid for.

Then it was, "WE know the subscribers were screwed in the transition to monthly, so we'll give you an added bonus to make up for the fact that the content you already paid for was halved." Now, you're taking that away, because it's unfair to those who didn't subscribe.

Unfair? How about those of us who paid for 18 issues with twice the content, who are now getting half the value? We already paid for it, and now we're just expecting you to give us what we paid for. Nothing more, nothing less.

Well, at least Poly will still be half the magazine.

Oh, wait.... "except for those rare exceptions of mini-games that can't be done in less than 40 pages." Rare exceptions? What we paid for will now not only be 4 a year instead of the 6 we were promised, but will be even smaller than the 40 pages we were promised more often than not. Much more often if "rare" is being used correctly.

So, basically your promises don't mean anything to us.

Oh, scratch that. Not promises, we paid for a service. Replace every instance of "promise" in the above letter with "contractual obligation". You see, you offered us a specific service. We took you up on the offer and paid you in advance. Now you're backing out of the deal that was struck.

In my line of work we call that "breech of contract".

Heck, I was just going to cancel my subscription, now I want a full refund.

Want change? Want what you were promised... er, make that Want to be provided the services you paid for? Hit them in the pocket book.

If Paizo collapses someone else will take up the reigns.

 

[diaglo]

I'd rather the magazine go out in a big bang.

Ranger REG and i finally agree on something.

 

[Katowice]

I like Dragon and Dungeon/Polyhedron the way they are, thank you, and have since 3rd Edition issues began.

 

[Henry]

Just so Erik gets some praise here and there let me state that I have been happy with many of the changes to the magazine, simply because I like variety in my magazine.

Many times when I thought I wouldn't possibly have a use for a Dungeon or Polyhedron, I pulled them back out months later, stole adventure ideas from them, or cannibalized them for use in a game. The sheer variety that the format changes have brought me has been useful in and of itself! Don't think that it never helped anyone, Erik.

The only pet peeve I had was Dungeon only getting one adventure in a given month, which you have pledged to fix, and I am thankful for that. Other than that, the mini-games, the coverage of the d20 world, the "side treks" the one page plots, etc. were all of immense use to my "brain juice" stockpile.

Thanks again, Erik, and I look forward to continuing to buy Dungeon.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

I would buy Dungeon if Poly had more interesting content. I don't use the adventures very much from Dungeon so I rarely buy the mag for that. Now if Poly dropped the useless minigames, added regular Star Wars and Call of Cthulhu stuff along with articles for other big d20 games I'd be happy. Oh don't forget a regular Living Greyhawk Journal. And a single ship isn't quite what I was expecting for SWd20 support. Like the current issue with the millenium falcon in it. I don't think that's going to be a ton of use for most DM's as it's going to be hard to snag that ship from Han. If most Poly's were like the one with the Jenasari SW article plus the new ship, and the Bright Desert writeup I'd buy it every month. But mini games are a waste of my money.

 

[Psion]

Deposit two cents...

Dragon I really liked for the first year or so after 3e came out... it was really useful.

Since then, it has waxed and waned for various reasons. Their current problem seems to be a glut of class related articles. And everything that is worthwhile is something you already have if you are into the d20 scene (Oathbound Prestige Races, AU spell templates...)

Dungeon... needs more adventures. Yeah, I know that they have less room now, but try for at least two adventures an issue. The biggest hurdle to using dungeon is that the adventure setup might not fit your campaign or setting. It's much better to have two campaigns only one of which fits than a huge adventure that you may or may not use.

Poly has also waxed and waned. I have not been a big fan of the minigames, especially tongue in cheek stuff like Hijinks and That 70s Chase Game. But every once in a while there is a gem. Iron Lord of Jupiter was truly awesome...