Possibilites for a non WotC Open Source Game?

[Ranger REG]

Why would WotC close the content for 4e? Are you assuming they are insane, or stupid? The OGL seems to have been such a fantastic success in growing the D&D market, they'd have to be stupid or insane to discard it.

Well, there is a good reason out there why other companies don't follow suits (i.e., White Wolf Storyteller, Palladium Megaversal, SJG's GURPS, etc.). I mean, they haven't Opened their rules system and they're not struggling as bad as WotC, despite my voodoo curse rituals on White Wolf and Palladium. They can cite their argument by the flood of mediocre third-party products out there due to lack of quality control. Like for every one good product, there are at least twenty crappy ones.

 

[SWBaxter]

But, you are missing the point. I was bringing up the possibility that at some point in the future the 3rd party publishers might want to create a new and non-d20 non-controled-by-hasbro Open Fantasy Game. And was wondering about people's thoughts on that.

I'm probably still missing the point, but it seems to me that if the third-party publishers wanted to do this and still retain the advantages of working under the SRD, what they'd do is publish rules for stat generation, XP tables, XP awards, and level advancement, with the SRD added on. Whether that could compete with D&D 4.0, I dunno.

Now OTOH you might mean that somebody should produce a ruleset and make it open content, then a bunch of other publishers would flock to it. I doubt this would work anywhere near as well as with the d20 SRD, because the d20 industry is built around the fact that umpty-zillion gamers own a PHB. Nobody else is likely to hit the same kind of market penetration in the near future. There are actually a fair number of rules systems that are either open, or have licensing fees that are pretty low, and none of them have anything like the d20 industry feeding off of them. The reason for this is simple - if 1% of D&D players buy your d20 supplement, that's enough to build a business around, 1% of D&D players is still a pretty large audience by RPG standards. 1% of most other games' audience is not large enough to fund a business, or even to pay back a freelancer.

Maybe someday we'll see another game achieve D&D's level of market penetration. Until then, I don't think we'll see any really successful competing systems spring up with a third party industry built around them.

 

[jdrakeh]

I wonder if anything could go up against DnD and be profitable.

I don't think that anything could compete directly with D&D and be profitable, no. The reason that D&D sells is because of the D&D name - that name is the one name in all of gamedom that has successfully penetrated different media markets and is widely recognized (if only as a piece of pop culture trivia) outside of our hobby.

There simply is no other property that possesses that kind of brand power within our hobby. In order to compete with the D&D name directly, a product would have to coat its pages with PCP or another highly addictive substance. Short of completely redefining the hobby, D&D will always be top dog.

 

[Vocenoctum]

As you have suggested WoTC will come out with 4th ed that will be closed content. They have seen the amount of money they could have made in 3/3.5 on all the suplements published by third-party publishers.

Like I mentioned in that thread, I doubt the presence of third party products hurt WotC's sales of the similar product. Also, the print rate is only so high, so they can't come out with too many books at once. By the time the WotC Book of Elves came out, the other elfie guides are forgotten in most cases.

I think Tri-Stat is Open, but until WotC closes their system I doubt you'll see any one switch to a new Open System en masse. There would be a market for it if some of the publishers all used the same (say, Green Ronin, Mongoose and Malhavok all used this new system) and if it had a compelling ruleset.

But, I think generic rules don't sell as well as semi-generic like D&D.

 

[Starman]

It's happening:

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/home/runequest.php

Will it be successful? Who knows?

 

[WayneLigon]

It's happening: http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/home/runequest.php Will it be successful? Who knows?

Sweet. So, is this the Basic Roleplaying system, or whatever was created for HeroQuest and such?

 

[Starman]

I believe it is a new version of it, but yes.

 

[mythusmage]

I know of three open systems other than d20. They are the Action! System, the Iridium System, and FUDGE. There may be a 4th, but I didn't catch the name.

The Action! System is not well known. Nor is the Iridium system, and it has the further drawback of being a bit too busy for its own good. Fudge has the problem of being the Linux of RPG systems. A good tool kit, but to do anything with it you need to put the kit together.

Haven't seen the upcoming Runequest system so I can't comment on that.

In order for a non-d20 system to catch on it would first have to be connected with a product that attracts an audience. And I have yet to see any RPG that does that well. Even D&D draws more thanks to reputation than presentation.

The system itself would have to be coherently done. In other words, organized. I have HARP Lite. HARP Lite is not organized. You have to jump from page to page just to put a character together. Rules are scattered hither and yon. From what I've read so far of the Iridium System RD, for all I disagree with many elements of the mechanics, it is much better organized (and better written).

The game itself would need to use the system to best advantage, with only the minimum changes necessary for setting and genre. Best would be the addition of mechanics designed to model any special conditions existing in the game world. Worst would be altering the core mechanics because they don't suit the milieu.

So for a non-d20 OGC game to succeed it has to do the following:

1. Draw potential customers who have no prior knowledge of the game

2. Present a system that is clean, organized (can't stress that enough), and is comfortable to use.

3. Offer a compelling game world.

Now where the system and the game are concerned each must answer some questions. Two in the case of the system, three in the case of the game.

The system must answer these two questions:

1. What do you do?

2. How do you do it.

The game must answer this question:

1. Where do you do it?

Any RPG that can answer that question, any system that can answer those questions, in a comprehensible manner has a huge headstart on systems and RPGs that cannot. Add in a presentation that says to the prospective customer, "Here's something you may find interesting." and you could have something that can actually fare as well as D&D.

As an exercise in critical thinking take your favorite RPG and answer the question, "What do you do?" I, in turn, will tell you why you're wrong.

 

[philreed]

While it is in no way a "D&D replacement," I have made the vsM Engine open. I've also included a logo and guidelines for its use.

 

[glass]

Sweet. So, is this the Basic Roleplaying system, or whatever was created for HeroQuest and such?

Not exactly either, as I understand it. It's to be based on the original RQ, but just different enough from current BRP that Chaosium don't sue.

At least, that is what I heard. EDIT: I hadn't heard about its being open though, so that's cool!


glass.