Power Attack Woes :(

[Aust Diamondew]

I house rule to 3.0 power attack. Mostly because I don't like encourage 2 handed weapons so much.

 

[Parlan]

Attack is +13/+8 (2d6 + 2 mag + 6 (str)= 2d6+8, avg 15 ) without power attack
Attack is +6/+1 (2d6 + 2 mag + 6 (str) + 7 = 2d6+15 avg 22) with 7 power attack in 3.0
Attack is +6/+1 (2d6 + 2 mag + 6 (str) + 14 = 2d6+22 avg 29) with 7 power attack in 3.5.

Now, he still has to hit

Bing bing bing, we have a winner!

Serriously, not being sarcastic here, but your last point hit the main issue here. Look at your numbers again: what kinda NPCs are you throwing at this guy?

At 7th, a basic (not partciularly optimized) opponent might have an AC of 21 (eg a clr in half plate with a large shield, and an additional +2 from Shield of Faith, Protec from Good etc.. Ftr in full plate w/ large shield and Dex, etc)

Iterative attack misses 95% of the time.(!!!)
First attack misses 70%

(So BOTH attacks miss 66.5% of the time. Check your player's dice if hits seem a little too frequent)

Average damage output 8.845

Sure there should be mooks that he can cut down like grass, but anything challenging him should have an AC high enough that he won t be able to PA that much.

 

[Endur]

Have the bad guys flee from the PC hero. He Man is coming.

 

[CM]

Before we even switched to 3.5e, the games I played in agreed to limit two-handed power attack bonus damage to 1.5x the attack penalty rather than 2x, just like the Strength bonus to damage. The warriors can still dish it out, and it also helps to limit the obscene damage giants are capable of against low-AC party members.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

No, IME, they plateau in the mid thirties to low forties.

+5 fullplate (+13)
Dex (+1)
+5 ring of protection (+5)
Rose Prism Ioun Stone (+1)
Boots of Speed (+1)

total AC: 31

A few other things can bring it up further:
+5 animated heavy shield (+7)
+5 amulet of natural armor or barkskin spell (+5)
Mithral Fullplate and 16 dex (an additional +2)

That brings it up to AC 45

Combat Expertise: Up to +5
Defending Weapon: Up to +5
Dodge Feat: +1

Alter Self can add +6 to that total; Polymorph can easily add +11.

So, a defensively focussed character is able to hit AC 56 without any non-core material, shape-changing, or prestige class bonusses. Of course, a lot of PCs won't have all that equipment or won't have the right kind of spellcasters in the party to pull it all off which is why I typically see lvl 16-17 characters with an AC somewhere between 35 and 42 before any fighting defensively, combat expertise, etc.

I guess in general AC's don't go up as fast as attack bonuses (typically, they kind of plateau out in the mid-20s, don't they?),

 

[drothgery]

I keep it as it was in 3.0. The main fighter is still doing a ton of damage. i don't think it has hurt play too much.

Heck, Power Attack (even with 2-for-1) is far less useful than it appears at first glance, at least for raw damage-dealing ability. When you're a high-damage-output front-line melee type (high strength, powerful magic weapons, high BAB), the increased chance of missing usually hurts more than you get back in extra damage per successful attack, especially when iterative attacks come into play.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

I don't understand this threads complaint.

Full power attack or even a 7 point PA at higher levels is seldom an optimum attack option. I would be more concerned that the player is going to get the character or ally killed pretty quickly; the less this Barbarian hits the more rounds of damage the party is exposed for.

 

[Staffan]

Before we even switched to 3.5e, the games I played in agreed to limit two-handed power attack bonus damage to 1.5x the attack penalty rather than 2x, just like the Strength bonus to damage. The warriors can still dish it out, and it also helps to limit the obscene damage giants are capable of against low-AC party members.

That's what I do too. Basically, main hand: 1x power attack; off hand: 0.5x power attack; and both hands: 1.5x power attack.

 

[S'mon]

I think it helps fighters compete with arcane casters, who tend to dominate battles at all levels IME with their area-effect attacks. It does overshadow other melee styles though.

 

[Felon]

I think it helps fighters compete with arcane casters, who tend to dominate battles at all levels IME with their area-effect attacks.

Well, that's something to consider that hasn't been mentioned in this thread, though wizards have their own version of AC, a.k.a. spell resistance. And then there are saving throws and energy resistances and such. It all comes out in the wash.

It does overshadow other melee styles though.

Nah, no way. Two-weapon rogues overshadow all.

Heck, Power Attack (even with 2-for-1) is far less useful than it appears at first glance, at least for raw damage-dealing ability. When you're a high-damage-output front-line melee type (high strength, powerful magic weapons, high BAB), the increased chance of missing usually hurts more than you get back in extra damage per successful attack, especially when iterative attacks come into play.

Right, a few lucky rolls in a row leads to folks drawing all sorts of erroneous conclusions.