D&D 5E Power Level of "Raise Stat to 19" Items

[Caliban]

I agree in general, but I have been in several games where the starting conditions were along the lines of "We're starting at level 5, you have 1000 gp, any mundane items you need, and one uncommon magic item of your choice." In that environment, picking up something like Gauntlets of Ogre Strength is a sneaky good choice for classes with multiple ability score needs like a Paladin, or adding on a nice melee attack to a Cleric or Bladelock.

And much like AL - that's not normal D&D.

Anytime you can pick exactly the items you want for your character, the certain items can have their effectiveness increased by making a character that can make the best use of whatever that item does. It's basic min/maxing or powergaming.

Anytime you play in a game where the players get to pick the magic items for their PC's, at least a few of the players are going to end up with more powerful characters because they make sure they can use the items as effectively as possible. (And often you will have one player will have no clue what they are doing an pick an item because it sounds neat but does nothing for their character...)

It's just human nature.

 

[abirdcall]

So what do you all think? Are the items fine as is, or do you agree to a higher spot on the rarity scale?

Rarity is not a measure of power. It is just a suggestion for how rare they are in the world. The weirder the item, the more rare it typically is. These items aren't very weird so they are only uncommon.

 

[Stalker0]

Rarity is not a measure of power. It is just a suggestion for how rare they are in the world. The weirder the item, the more rare it typically is. These items aren't very weird so they are only uncommon.

That's not exactly true. Rarity determines at what level players should generally get these items, and a rough approximation of how long they take to craft and how much they cost...assuming you use those optional rules.

 

[Saeviomagy]

For example, Bob and Joe decide to be fighters. Bob makes strength his highest score and when he levels up dutifully puts points into strength. Joe smirks because he knows the DM allows purchase of uncommon items, makes strength his dump stat and focuses on dexterity. After a few level Joe buys the gauntlets and is now just as strong as Bob (or nearly so) and has a high dex to boot.

So what? If a fighter has a high dex, getting a high strength is of limited value. Congratulations, now you can use those weapons you specialized in multiple levels ago...

Meanwhile Bob has picked up a helm of telepathy, or a javelin of lightning, or any number of other items that aren't nearly so redundant, and was never crippling himself waiting for a magic item he didn't have yet.

 

[dco]

Yes, those items are powerful, specially the one that improves constitution because this is not usually the main stat. Bue there are other things, like +2, +3 weapons and armors, weapons with extra damage dice, etc. Those things can change the balance and make encounters very easy, try Rise of Tiamat with the 2H sword artifact.

 

[Thurmas]

I don't mind these, but I also don't allow players to buy magic items outside of potions and scrolls, so I can see how they could be destabilizing.

That being said, I would prefer that the items increased a stat by a range such as +2 or +4 instead of assigning a flat score. It allows them to in fact benefit any character that would want to use them instead of just the characters that wouldn't be good at that stat anyway. I would also want them to raise the max score in that stat above 20 an amount equal to the stat increase (+4 means max stat is now 24).

 

[neogod22]

For the most part they aren't a big deal.

If your primary stat is Str you are probably already going to have a 16 in that stat - so Gauntlets of Ogre Power only grant a +1 to hit/dam - the same as a +1 weapon, which is also uncommon.

If you are a wizard, you are probably already going to have a 16+ int, and the Headband of Intellect is likewise a +1 buff.

Some characters will only have a 12 or 14 in their primary stat, and in that case the Gauntlets or Headband would be more valuable. But it's a pretty uncommon occurrence.

The 19 stat items give a bigger boost to characters who don't have a high stat in that attribute, but in most cases the boost will be worth less because it's in an area that isn't used much by their class.

Naturally, there are edge cases where this doesn't hold true, but every magic item will have some character builds that benefit from it more than others.

And to add to that, this isn't a permanent boost in stats, only a temporary boost while the character is wearing the item. The character can't use their ASI to raise it to 20. The can only raise their permanent stats.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

 

[Dausuul]

That being said, I would prefer that the items increased a stat by a range such as +2 or +4 instead of assigning a flat score. It allows them to in fact benefit any character that would want to use them instead of just the characters that wouldn't be good at that stat anyway. I would also want them to raise the max score in that stat above 20 an amount equal to the stat increase (+4 means max stat is now 24).

The fact that they don't benefit the characters who have maxed the target stat is a selling point for me. It means there's an interesting choice now: Who, other than the specialist in that stat, should get this item? The more important the stat is to you, the more points you have likely invested naturally, and the less benefit the item provides. It's a neat tradeoff. And it opens up real options for the character who gets it. The spindly Strength 8 wizard is suddenly thinking about ways to get proficiency in Athletics.

If the item just gives +4 to the stat in question, then two out of three items become no-brainers: The fighter gets the gauntlets of ogre power and the wizard gets the headband of intellect, and they don't get any new options or possibilities. They just get bigger numbers in the things they already do all the time. Dullsville.

Finally, I like how it makes the item's benefit feel unnatural. It isn't augmenting your strength or intellect, it's replacing it. You are, literally, letting the headband do your thinking for you, and the gauntlets do your heavy lifting. And you're never quite as smart as a true genius, or as strong as a true athlete.

(I could see an argument for the amulet of health giving a bonus instead of a flat 19, though. Since no one specializes in Con, it's fairly clear that you give the amulet to whoever has the lowest Con, so the party's overall hit point pool gets the biggest boost. If it gave a bonus instead, you'd have to debate whether you want to give those extra hit points to the fighter who takes the most heat, or to the wizard who can't take any heat.)

 

[Thurmas]

The fact that they don't benefit the characters who have maxed the target stat is a selling point for me. It means there's an interesting choice now: Who, other than the specialist in that stat, should get this item? The more important the stat is to you, the more points you have likely invested naturally, and the less benefit the item provides. It's a neat tradeoff. And it opens up real options for the character who gets it. The spindly Strength 8 wizard is suddenly thinking about ways to get proficiency in Athletics.

If the item just gives +4 to the stat in question, then two out of three items become no-brainers: The fighter gets the gauntlets of ogre power and the wizard gets the headband of intellect, and they don't get any new options or possibilities. They just get bigger numbers in the things they already do all the time. Dullsville.

Finally, I like how it makes the item's benefit feel unnatural. It isn't augmenting your strength or intellect, it's replacing it. You are, literally, letting the headband do your thinking for you, and the gauntlets do your heavy lifting. And you're never quite as smart as a true genius, or as strong as a true athlete.

(I could see an argument for the amulet of health giving a bonus instead of a flat 19, though. Since no one specializes in Con, it's fairly clear that you give the amulet to whoever has the lowest Con, so the party's overall hit point pool gets the biggest boost. If it gave a bonus instead, you'd have to debate whether you want to give those extra hit points to the fighter who takes the most heat, or to the wizard who can't take any heat.)

All valid points, I don't disagree with you. At the same time, I think it has the downside of eventually not having to make difficult character choices. The number of attuned items you can have in 5E is a big limit.

I would rather see the fighter having to weigh which 4 items benefit him the most (one of which being ogre gauntlets that add +4 str) and make the tough decision of which 3 to keep, as opposed to having the wizard make the same decision, but one of his four items being ogre gauntlets and him not really have a tough decision because they don't help him that much.

I find that players are more interested in magic items that help and support their character concept than magic items that make them better at something they don't really care about. Sure, a super strong wizard is nice, but in the end gauntlets are likely to be the last choice between a robe, staff and ring that actually do help him.

 

[abirdcall]

That's not exactly true. Rarity determines at what level players should generally get these items, and a rough approximation of how long they take to craft and how much they cost...assuming you use those optional rules.

If you have magic item shops, then yes it's a problem. But then, it is probably the least of your problems anyway.

That being said, I would prefer that the items increased a stat by a range such as +2 or +4 instead of assigning a flat score. It allows them to in fact benefit any character that would want to use them instead of just the characters that wouldn't be good at that stat anyway. I would also want them to raise the max score in that stat above 20 an amount equal to the stat increase (+4 means max stat is now 24).

This is far more powerful. Orders of magnitude.