Powergaming w/ Awaken: I have +2 HD!

[Hypersmurf]

"...To succeed, you must make a Will save (DC 10 + the animal’s current HD, or the HD the tree will have once awakened)..." There is an obvious buit-in limit here - considering that you'll need an natural 20 before long, AND it takes 250 XP each time.

That's where the Mysticism Domain (from a level of Contemplative) becomes important.

Casting Maximized Awaken gives you +3 to Charisma each time you Awaken, which gives a +1.5 to all your saves via the Domain power.

Now, your saves are increasing by +1.5, and your Hit Dice are increasing by +2... but it hasn't been addressed yet whether or not you gain Skills, Feats, ability score increases, BAB, and Saves for that increase in hit dice. 3.5 made an effort to be consistent about those - they're based on hit dice.

So, every second Awaken spell gives you an ability score increase, which you can also put into Cha... and Magical Beasts have a Poor Will save, which means every three hit dice gives +1 to the Will Save.

So, for every two Maximized Awaken spells, you receive:
+6 Cha (direct effect) = +3 Will Save
+1 Cha (ability increase) = +.5 Will Save
+1 1/3 Will Save (Poor Save)

For a total of +4.83 to your Will Save, and only +4 Hit Dice. Your Will Save not only keeps pace with the increase in Hit Dice, but actually gets easier the more times you Awaken yourself

-Hyp.

 

[Pielorinho]

I believe Pielorinho's been advocating that since the first rumours of "Type changes in 3.5!" began to spread...

-Hyp.

Yep . The fact that druidic wildshaping:
1) Changes their type to animal; and
2) Doesn't change their INT score

is another argument against the current rules. Not only are they confusing, not only do they allow for some terrible munchkinism, they also contradict other rules-sets.

Daniel

 

[Benben]

Here's a solution that isn't directly rules related, but I think certainly fits into the context of the spell.

Awaken has the purpose of giving awareness to something that was non-sentient or non-thinking.

The spell mentions that familiars, animal companions, and special mounts can no longer serve their master if Awakened. I remember the Sage, in 3.0 days, saying that this was because the creature was fully self-aware and had to be treated as an NPC.

Using this reasoning, wouldn't a druid casting this on herself be committing personality-suicide as the spell would create a new consciousness along with the added hit dice?

 

[Enkhidu]

I believe Pielorinho's been advocating that since the first rumours of "Type changes in 3.5!" began to spread...

Then Pielorinho is a very smart man.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Here's a solution that isn't directly rules related, but I think certainly fits into the context of the spell.

Awaken has the purpose of giving awareness to something that was non-sentient or non-thinking.

The spell mentions that familiars, animal companions, and special mounts can no longer serve their master if Awakened. I remember the Sage, in 3.0 days, saying that this was because the creature was fully self-aware and had to be treated as an NPC.

Using this reasoning, wouldn't a druid casting this on herself be committing personality-suicide as the spell would create a new consciousness along with the added hit dice?

Wouldn't such a spell be designated as [evil] then? After all, animals certainly have some form of personality.

 

[Li Shenron]

Ok, one of my druid PCs IMC wants to Awaken himself.

Clearly, he's been Asleep all the time you've been roleplaying.

 

[strongbow]

Li Shenron, LOL. I can't stop laughing to type <breathe> As the thread starter, I knew this one would draw some good comments, but I've really enjoyed reading some of the responses. Keep it up

 

[youspoonybard]

MM2 Sylph abuse?

 

[Hypersmurf]

MM2 Sylph abuse?

Bloody hell!

I think I'd straight away rule that it's only sylph hit dice that count, not hit dice from class levels or from multiple Awakens

-Hyp.

 

[Celtavian]

re

Only a group of rules lawyers would debate a topic such as this. Most DM's would simply deny the player.

It seems like this is a subtle attack on the 3.5 rules using a rather strange example that most people, including the game designers, probably would overlook. No DM is ever going to Awaken allow this to happen.

I fail to see the trouble with the druid's type changing to animal or plant save for this circumstance. Are there a variety of other circumstances where the type change is a problem?