PrC Purpose and Usage

[Larry Fitz]

Perhaps I'm in error on this, but aren't Prestige classes suppposed to be balanced compared to other PC classes? We all have seen "Das Uber PrC" where the character gets abilities that far outstrip the abilities of the base classes, and I won't point fingers or name names, but isn't the point to make te characters more interesting and specific, not necessarily allow them to wield phenomenal cosmic power? At LI we were very conscious to make our PrC balanced, in fact John Faugno (Donatello to his friends, fearful merchant ship captains, and readers of this forum) reviews each PrC for this purpose specifically. How does everyone else feel about this? And I'd like to hear specifics from people who aren't part of game publishing companies, if possible. Although if Monte Cook or any of the 3E developers would like to chime in on their intent, that would be great.

"Dragons? Dragons are not like ye and me boy, they are much bigger, and take an awful long time to cook, and they don't taste as good..." -Talisker Beane, cannibal priest of the Unmaker.

 

[Crothian]

Well, first of all they should be relatively balanced. PrC are a lot of things. They can represent different organizations and specialized training (Ninja of Crescent Moon). They can represent becoming something more (Dragon Disciple, Oozemaster). They can show specializing in one area (lasher, loremaster). They do different things.

The balancing part becomes tough when you have some PrC that are very combat oriented trying to balance with PrC that are not. Normally, when people talk about balance it is limited to balance in combat, not necessarily in abilities. I find it hard to quantify the abilities to see if it's balanced.

I do think PrC need to be balanced in some way. There are certain ones that are much better and actually a few that people find too weak. I will say I've yet to have a PRC disrupt my game by having the PC overshadow the others. I have yet to disallow a PrC that a player wanted. Some things look worse on paper but actually aren't that bad in actual use. I've made my own PrC with the help of many fine people over in House Rules, and I've helped many others over there. I think we have a some really good people over there that understand the balance issue.

By all means, pick out certain PrC to discuss. We do that all the time in the different forums Right now there's a discussion on the Deepwood Sniper and how that class is actual weak for a Prestige Class over in House Rules.

 

[RogueJK]

Perhaps I'm in error on this, but aren't Prestige classes suppposed to be balanced compared to other PC classes? We all have seen "Das Uber PrC" where the character gets abilities that far outstrip the abilities of the base classes, and I won't point fingers or name names, but isn't the point to make te characters more interesting and specific, not necessarily allow them to wield phenomenal cosmic power?

I don't think that was the point of Prestige Classes at all. Just look at the PrCs in the DMG. These were the first prestige classes ever, and even they have powers above and beyond those given to the base classes.

In a perfect world, prestige classes shouldn't outstrip the core classes in terms of power. But as it stands now, they do, and will probably continue to do so in the future.

The main problem that I have with granting prestige classes these extra powers is that they are practically forcing you into taking levels in a prestige class. If you don't, you lag far behind other characters in the game in terms of combat power and abilities. But I don't forsee this changing anytime soon.

 

[UD]

http://www.criticalmiss.co.uk/current/scenarioinflation-legend1.html
for teh ultimate in overpowered prc. (humour)

 

[Piratecat]

A well designed PrC should provide greater power in a particular area, balanced by lesser capabilities elsewhere. It's all about focus and specialization; nothing wrong with a PrC being better than the mean at specific things, as long as they're paying for it elsewhere.

 

[bret]

Actually, as I understand it there are multiple reasons for a PrC.

• To make a concept more effective. If you were to do it without a PrC, the concept would be too weak in comparison to other characters. The main example of this is the Lasher, although you could argue that the SpellSword and Arcane Trickster would also fit in this category.
• To give a special 'feel' to an organization, something to make it unique. Mage of the Arcane Order and the Harpsters are probably the best examples here.
• To focus on a single aspect of the character, generating a much narrower group of abilities. Elemental Savant is a pretty good example of this.

The thing is there are also examples of PrC that just plain outstrip the core classes in their abilities. The one I've become recently aware of is the Battle Priest from DotF. They are going to be better combatants than a Paladin, and get some of the unique spells (such as Holy Weapon) faster than a Paladin can. Gee, clerical spells and combat abilities that outclass a fighter. Wonder if there is a problem here?

 

[Hand of Evil]

PrCs become over powered when they are used in games that they were not devoloped for. It is important to remember they are a DMs option and the DM should design their games around the abilities of their player characters. If they do not, it then is either a hackfest or a waste of a player.

 

[Vaxalon]

PrCs become over powered when they are used in games that they were not devoloped for. It is important to remember they are a DMs option and the DM should design their games around the abilities of their player characters. If they do not, it then is either a hackfest or a waste of a player.

Hallelujah brother!

A DM should not have players coming to him, saying, "Can I take this prestige class?" Instead, the DM should publish, at the beginning of the game, the prestige classes that are available in various cultures, faiths, organizations and locations in his game.

 

[JoeGKushner]

The most important thing about any prestige class isn't about balance, it's about the DMing deciding it if needs to be balanced.

I've seen a lot of people talk about PrC's being more powerful than standard classes, but to be honest, one of the most powerful characters in my campaign is a straight fighter and a straight wizard. Two bad people.

I do agree that PrC's can be overbalancing. In such cases, they follow the old Dragon Magazine based classes... NPC!

Just kidding.

I personally think that way too many prestige classes are generic in terms of what their named and what they do. I've seen many that could be done by taking a level of this and a level of that. The multiclassing rules are very good for creating custom characters.

I would love to see more books that focus on putting the PrC's in some type of context. That's one of the things I enjoyed about Mystic Warriors. SOme of the classes are overpowered and some of the abilities they gain are outrageous, but you always had a pretty good idea of where they belonged.

One of the ways I've seen various publishers work on controlling the power limit from a PrC is making it a 5 level class, or making it very difficult to gain entry to. This makes it more balanced in that the other characters are already a fairly high level.

Overall I'm not as concerned with game balance as I suppose I should be. I'm more worried about lack of originality (how many sharpsooters, swordmasters, berserkers, and swashbuckers do we need?) and lack of purpose.

 

[the Jester]

To answer the original question, prestige classes should be balanced but may well be a tad more powerful than a standard "base" class. However, for what it gains it must give up something else. No prestige class should make a better straight fighter than the fighter class, but a better mounted fighter (cavalier), finesse fighter (duellist) or two-weapon fighter (tempest), sure.