Priority in feat/class gaining

[Cicciograna]

Hi there. One of my player asked me a question: he's up to gain a new level (from 5th to 6th) and he will get a feat that is a prerequisite to a prestige class. He asked me if he can get the feat AND the 1st level in prestige class in reaching the new level: I told him that he has to wait the subsequent level (the 7th charachter level), 'cause he must first have all the feats, and then get the 1st prestige class level. I'm not completely sure that I told him right: I think that there is something in the core rulebooks about this, but I couldn't find it. Could someone tell me where to look (page # of manual X) or, if there isn't anything about this in the rules, give me his advice?

 

[Rvdvelden]

Straight from the SRD (bold added):

Prestige classes offer a new form of multiclassing. Unlike the basic classes, characters must meet Requirements before they can take their first level of a prestige class. The rules for level advancement apply to this system, meaning the first step of advancement is always choosing a class. If a character does not meet the Requirements for a prestige class before that first step, that character cannot take the first level of that prestige class. Taking a prestige class does not incur the experience point penalties normally associated with multiclassing.

So rulewise you are correct. You could always apply rule 0 if you want to be lenient towards your player.

 

[Cicciograna]

Thank you: thanks for quoting, I found it in DMG.

 

[brehobit]

I personally would always let them do this...

Mark

 

[Cicciograna]

I personally would always let them do this...

Mark

Do what? Let 'em get the feat and gain the prestige class level or do what I did?

 

[brehobit]

Do what? Let 'em get the feat and gain the prestige class level or do what I did?

Let them get both at the same time. I see it as a case of poor planning for plotting out the character and I don't like penalizing people for that.

Mark

 

[irdeggman]

Let them get both at the same time. I see it as a case of poor planning for plotting out the character and I don't like penalizing people for that.

Mark

Actually poor planning usually has nothing to do with but rather Pr Class design.

That is to say it was "intended" that a chracter would be a 5th level character "before" taking a level in the Prestige Class.

 

[Cicciograna]

I don't think it would be wise to let my player get the feat AND the prestige class level, in terms of realism: after all, a feat is not divinely infused knowledge, and one has to practice on it. The time in which the character practices the feat is that involved in the passing of the level: as gaining a prestige class requires that the character actually masters the ability granted by the feat, it would be strange if he could enhance the ability he gets from the feat, while he's still practicing on it.
I deem more realistic if a character trains hardly on something (which, in game terms, means he's getting a new feat) and then, after becoming really proficient with his new ability, hones his skills to a higher degree (which is to say that he gets the prestige class).

 

[nittanytbone]

IF the feat was one that could have been obtained at an earlier level I'd hand wave it and let the player take the PrC right away, especially if it was an honest oversight.

For example, if a PrC required "Alertness," and the player didn't plan ahead for it as an accidental oversight (or maybe at level 3 they weren't planning on entering the PrC!) I'd allow them to be gained simultaneusly. The player could have taken the feat at level 1 or 3 no problem.

If they were trying to "game" the system, avoiding a mediocre or bad feat to the last possible second, I might allow it with some arbitrary training expense or side quest or something as they've dodged the "cost" of having to haul around a sub par feat for several levels.

If the PrC required something that requires six levels such as Elusive Target, then no, I wouldn't allow it.

 

[Cicciograna]

IF the feat was one that could have been obtained at an earlier level I'd hand wave it and let the player take the PrC right away, especially if it was an honest oversight.

For example, if a PrC required "Alertness," and the player didn't plan ahead for it as an accidental oversight (or maybe at level 3 they weren't planning on entering the PrC!) I'd allow them to be gained simultaneusly. The player could have taken the feat at level 1 or 3 no problem.

This is not our case. I chose to allow PrC later in the game, when my PCs where about 3rd level so, to cope with this choiche, I told 'em they were free to customize their characters until 6th level, so they had the opportunity to gain all the feats they needed and didn't take in previous levels. (I know this is not a really good idea, since the characters used some abilities later dropped, but I couldn't deny them the opportunity to get those feats just for having changed my mind in the middle of a campaing...)