Eristophenes
First Post
Great ideas - keep them coming...
problem with challenges...
- Thread starter Eristophenes
- Start date
Orcs
I've given my party a run for their money lately with low level smart orcs. The party consists of
Fighter 9/Asimar
Fighter 10 (Spiked Chain user)
Fighter 10 Archer
Cleric 10
Wizard 10
Rogue 10
On 2 occasions in the orc lair. One group was an organized Phalanx
1 1 1 1 1
2 2 2 2 2
3 3 3 3 3
4 5
the 1's are orcs with Tower Shields making a shield wall.
the 2's have long spears and use the aid another technique
the 3's use barbed nets
the 4 is an orc sorcerer that will ready to dispel enemy casters
the 5 is a Bodygueard for the sorcerer
the 1's, 2's and 3's are a CR9(all lvl 1 orcs either fighter or barb)
the 4 is a CR9 (9th lvl sorcerer)
the 5 is whatever you want it to be I use a 6th lvl fighter
The next group of Orcs are a bunch of level 1 orc fighters with the appropriate grapple related feats (there is one form OA that makes the grapple not provoke an AoO) 32 of these orcs are a CR11. Also use the Aid another technique.
The next one is for Goblins or Kobolds. I have a whack-a-mole room. a 30x30 room with 2' holes in each 5' square. There is a space below the floor that the kobolds can run around in. place several Kobold spell caster and archers that run around pop out of a hole and cast or shoot then move. Works even better if they have shot on the run or the casters are hasted.
These are all low level creatures so it really ticks off the party.
Enjoy.
I've given my party a run for their money lately with low level smart orcs. The party consists of
Fighter 9/Asimar
Fighter 10 (Spiked Chain user)
Fighter 10 Archer
Cleric 10
Wizard 10
Rogue 10
On 2 occasions in the orc lair. One group was an organized Phalanx
1 1 1 1 1
2 2 2 2 2
3 3 3 3 3
4 5
the 1's are orcs with Tower Shields making a shield wall.
the 2's have long spears and use the aid another technique
the 3's use barbed nets
the 4 is an orc sorcerer that will ready to dispel enemy casters
the 5 is a Bodygueard for the sorcerer
the 1's, 2's and 3's are a CR9(all lvl 1 orcs either fighter or barb)
the 4 is a CR9 (9th lvl sorcerer)
the 5 is whatever you want it to be I use a 6th lvl fighter
The next group of Orcs are a bunch of level 1 orc fighters with the appropriate grapple related feats (there is one form OA that makes the grapple not provoke an AoO) 32 of these orcs are a CR11. Also use the Aid another technique.
The next one is for Goblins or Kobolds. I have a whack-a-mole room. a 30x30 room with 2' holes in each 5' square. There is a space below the floor that the kobolds can run around in. place several Kobold spell caster and archers that run around pop out of a hole and cast or shoot then move. Works even better if they have shot on the run or the casters are hasted.
These are all low level creatures so it really ticks off the party.
Enjoy.
TabulaRasa
First Post
Don’t be afraid to kill your players
When I play the monsters I try to think like they do. Ex. If the pc party encounters a evil party the evil party use the best tactic, just like the pc’s do. The evil party knows by the looks of the pc party witch character is the spellcasters etc. and uses all powers to take out the biggest threat first. And if that means killing the spellcaster, so be it.
If you hold back, the players will know it and they won’t see the encounters as a real threat.
Challenge the party with a encounter with EL +3 (EL13)
Ex. Some Mindflayers supported by Drow’s or Duergar’s
Constructs and undead’s also make memorable opponents and good challenges.
/Tabula
When I play the monsters I try to think like they do. Ex. If the pc party encounters a evil party the evil party use the best tactic, just like the pc’s do. The evil party knows by the looks of the pc party witch character is the spellcasters etc. and uses all powers to take out the biggest threat first. And if that means killing the spellcaster, so be it.
If you hold back, the players will know it and they won’t see the encounters as a real threat.
Challenge the party with a encounter with EL +3 (EL13)
Ex. Some Mindflayers supported by Drow’s or Duergar’s
Constructs and undead’s also make memorable opponents and good challenges.
/Tabula
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mkletch
First Post
Use something that is obviously way out of their league, and see if they are dumb enough to try and fight it. Make it a roleplaying encounter with a dragon, or a death slaad, a balor or whatever. "Hey, you guys woke me up. Leave THAT sword and one of your band behind. A trinket and a lunch will compensate me for the disturbance."
The other thing that is really nasty: a pit filled with water, which is the lair for a gray ooze. Or any other traps, really, since there is no rogue.
Or a mob of irrelevant humanoids doing grapple, disarm, trip, etc. eventually they will overwhelm the cocky adventurers.
By saying that you don't really want to kill them, I can infer that the encounters you have been setting against them were weak. They will of course walk through any encounter that is specifically designed to NOT kill them, pretty much by definition. If you have encounters that repeatedly threaten life and limb, and some characters die, or you get a TPK, they will respect future encounters.
I agree, designing an encounter to simply wipe them out would be cheesy. But setting the tone that ANY combat is liable to be dangerous to them is not. BTW, find some way to get around life-restoring magics. Soul bind, or any of the souls-as-power techniques from BoVD (which destroy the souls) would do the trick. The knowledge that the yo-yo, alive-dead-alive-dead-alive-dead scheme is available cheapens any threat, even an overwhelming one.
The other thing that is really nasty: a pit filled with water, which is the lair for a gray ooze. Or any other traps, really, since there is no rogue.
Or a mob of irrelevant humanoids doing grapple, disarm, trip, etc. eventually they will overwhelm the cocky adventurers.
By saying that you don't really want to kill them, I can infer that the encounters you have been setting against them were weak. They will of course walk through any encounter that is specifically designed to NOT kill them, pretty much by definition. If you have encounters that repeatedly threaten life and limb, and some characters die, or you get a TPK, they will respect future encounters.
I agree, designing an encounter to simply wipe them out would be cheesy. But setting the tone that ANY combat is liable to be dangerous to them is not. BTW, find some way to get around life-restoring magics. Soul bind, or any of the souls-as-power techniques from BoVD (which destroy the souls) would do the trick. The knowledge that the yo-yo, alive-dead-alive-dead-alive-dead scheme is available cheapens any threat, even an overwhelming one.
It seems to me that if you are looking for an encounter short of an insanely powerful dragon to show the PC's up that your best bet might be a golem or two. The spell resistance of the golem is insane enough to make the spellcasters direct damage spells useless and some of the medium to higher powered golems have AC that make it difficult for the fighters to be wholly effective against them. You throw extraordinary abilities on top of that and I think that you have an encounter that can make things difficult but not impossible for the party given a little preparation.
hammymchamham
First Post
Also, go for where it really hurts. THEIR ITEMS. Destroy the fighters weapons. Sunder+Improved Sunder workers wonders. If you don't kill them, you've just hit at what they value MORE than the PC's themselves (I know how it is, my rogue loves his ring of blinking, if he lost that.... AURGHGHGHG!). I did this, had a vampire fighter of the same level (9) as them with sunder and improved sunder. I could destroy all of their weapons in one average chop. I did, except one who threw his weapon to the ground and used a spell to attack instead. He was the only one to die (one round before the vampire).
Eristophenes
First Post
mkletch -> you got me wrong - I don't want to kill them in that case... I want to show them, that even a wuss canbe a challenge...
Given the party composition, I would hit them where they are weakest.
Have some brigands that like to use hit and run tactics along with traps. They have no rogue, so even simple traps will wear them down.
Every encounter, the first thing that the brigands should have is an escape route. They plan to run away when things aren't going their way. The escape route is trapped of coarse, just in case someone is following.
Several hit and run encounters are hard on spellcasters. They have to carefully marshal their resources. Fireball isn't as useful outside, where the opponents can be much more spread out.
The other thing is when brigands get away, they learn something of the party tactics and capabilities. They can start working around them.
The main thing this requires is a smart leader with a couple of main underlings. Make all of them lower level than the characters, but fight very smart and extremely unfair.
I would probably make it about 30-40 brigands. Leader would either be a cleric of the thieve's god, a Spellsword, or someone building towards Arcane Trickster. You really want someone who has spellcraft, just so they can reasonably react to the group's spell capabilities.
Have some brigands that like to use hit and run tactics along with traps. They have no rogue, so even simple traps will wear them down.
Every encounter, the first thing that the brigands should have is an escape route. They plan to run away when things aren't going their way. The escape route is trapped of coarse, just in case someone is following.
Several hit and run encounters are hard on spellcasters. They have to carefully marshal their resources. Fireball isn't as useful outside, where the opponents can be much more spread out.
The other thing is when brigands get away, they learn something of the party tactics and capabilities. They can start working around them.
The main thing this requires is a smart leader with a couple of main underlings. Make all of them lower level than the characters, but fight very smart and extremely unfair.
I would probably make it about 30-40 brigands. Leader would either be a cleric of the thieve's god, a Spellsword, or someone building towards Arcane Trickster. You really want someone who has spellcraft, just so they can reasonably react to the group's spell capabilities.
DiFier
First Post
Set something up so that whatever they do doesn't actually make a difference. something beyond their control. example: They have to save the city from the hoard of raiders. each encounter they will win (don't make it too easy) but to save the city they have to use their intellegence. Nothing demoralizes a party like letting them win but having it not make a difference. Mayor of city "they have a sorcerer attacking the east wall. please help defend it" they goto the east wall defend it from the sorcerer but that was just a diversion
now there are raiders in the Westren District. you have to hunt them down.
Also improved invisibility and hostages can annoy them too.
just some random thoughts.
now there are raiders in the Westren District. you have to hunt them down.
Also improved invisibility and hostages can annoy them too.
just some random thoughts.
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