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5E Psionics in Tasha

Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
Your answer doesn't answer the question. Where does the book say that wizard and cleric's spells are the same in the fiction, as opposed to using the same mechanics as a useful short hand?

I didn't say the spells are exactly the same. I said the prime source and interface of spells are the same.

How

A cleric1/druid1/wizard1/sorcerer1 spell slots merge now into a 4th level spellcaster.
 

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Must Minigiant explain how spells work?

D&D spellcasting runs on the "Language of the universe" aka True Names.

Anything you say in the Language just happens.

The problem is the Universe hates when you speak the language.
Only gods, beings with a divine portfolio, can say the language unfettered.

When Jane the Cleric prays to her god for the daylight, her god can say "Jane can cast daylight".
Now the entire universe warps around Jane and she can use spell slots to cast daylight.

Wizards don't have a god speaking True Names for them. They must say it themselves. Unfortunately they are mortal an can't.
So wizards get around it by speaking several bastardized dialects of True Names.
Hocus Pocus is a drunken cockney true names.
Somatic gestures is True name sign language.
And for some reason the universe associates fire with bat poo so you must display it.

The last method is to be magical. By having magic into, you can subsitute your body, bones, and blood for the words you can't say but must.
Because Luke the sorcerer's great grandpappy was a fire dragon, he doesn't have to speak the "5 times ran through Google" word for fire when casting fireball.
Right. So just like you have developed your own super rigid headcanon about what psionics is you have done the same with magic. Seems like a 'you problem'.
 


Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
Right. So just like you have developed your own super rigid headcanon about what psionics is you have done the same with magic. Seems like a 'you problem'.

Never said it wasn't. :)
I like my hard magic systems consistent.
Others can avoid thinking about it and play their nonsensical systems where up means left and bloodlines and contracts are the same.
 


I like my hard magic systems consistent.
Me too. I think about this stuff a lot. And I arrived to different conclusions than you. And neither of us is even right or wrong, because this stuff isn't real.

Others can avoid thinking about it and play their nonsensical systems where up means left and bloodlines and contracts are the same.
Thinking about the magical metaphysics lead me to conclusion that warlocks and sorcerers should be the same. The important part is that you're imbued with magic, not how it happened.
 


Exactly.
So if there is even one psionic spell on the wizard list, a wizard can write down psionics.

litterally scribbling down Jedi powers and the Man in Yellow at no penalty. That's too much for Minigiant.
I really don't think it is any weirder than them being able to copy priestly prayers in their spellbook and have them work just fine. Which, I admit, is weird. I'd be perfectly ok if wizards could only copy scrolls made by other wizards. But it is understandable that the default rules don't have such a limitation as they don't want to have to specify the source of every scroll.
 

Aldarc

Legend
The things shared come from official books.

The argument wouldn't be that the lore isn't canon, it would be that the lore is inconsistent, retconned, or has unreliable authors.

You argue which books are right not not that they don't exist.
The page numbers you cited certainly come from official books, but the texts on those pages don't always say what you think that they say.
 

Mercurius

Legend
Haven't read the thread or followed Psionicsgate closely, but it really seems like there's no point in adding--and calling it--"psionics" if it is just more spells, albeit of a psychic nature. Why not just add psychic-flavored spells to wizards or, better yet, sorcerers?

On the other hand, a multi-faceted approached could be taken, each as rules options:

*A "mind mage" wizard and/or sorcerer sub-class (this is the easy but blandest route they seem to be taking with Tasha's).
*A "mystic" or psion new class, with an entirely different sub-system that makes psionics feel and play differently.
*A AD&D style sub-system in which PCs of any and all classes can have "psychic abilities."

So there you have it: mind mage, mystic/psion, and psychic abilities. Best of all worlds, and all optional.

I am honestly baffled why it has been so hard for WotC to figure this out. These folks do game design as a full-time vocation. I know you can't please everyone all of the time, but there does seem to be general consensus that psionics should look and feel differently than other forms of supernatural power. To quote the Great French One, "Make It So."
 

Usually clerics of religions without gods can't cast spells.
But they can get around it via bastardized Truenaming.
5e Citation really and truly needed here. It is fine to have your own theories and opinions, but since you're trying to claim this as fact across the 5e system, you need to back it up.

The holes are filled by lore and text commonly shared by the community.

Deities grant cleric magic.
Wizards use complex rituals, gestures, and words to activate their magic.
Wizards don't need to speak the language of wizards they copy spells from so the language of wizards is universal.
Power Word Kill

I really think that you are getting mixed up in your personal definitions and some confusion between "magic" and "spells".
Spells are magic, but not all magic is spells.

Most monks for example do not cast spells. Yet all monks are magical. They harness the power of their mind and soul to enhance their body. It is entirely possible that ki is closer to psionic power than it is to casting spells, but it is still magic.
 


Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
5e Citation really and truly needed here. It is fine to have your own theories and opinions, but since you're trying to claim this as fact across the 5e system, you need to back it up.

The only thing I claimed is fact is that spells all use the same interface.

True name is one intepetation of the interface. The Weave is another. The Strands of Magic is another.
I like True Names.

I really think that you are getting mixed up in your personal definitions and some confusion between "magic" and "spells".
Spells are magic, but not all magic is spells.

I know this. That's my whole argument.
Not all magic and supernatural effects are spells.

Most monks for example do not cast spells. Yet all monks are magical. They harness the power of their mind and soul to enhance their body. It is entirely possible that ki is closer to psionic power than it is to casting spells, but it is still magic.

My theory is that monk subtly alter their own true names via meditation, adding their supernatural abilities to core selves via ki.
 

@Minigiant the stuff you talk about is fluff and might very well massively vary from setting to setting and your interpretation seems to have a liberal dose of headcanon in it. Which is fine, but it is unreasonable to except WotC design their mechanics based on your headcanon. It is actually better if they leave some things open to interpenetration so that people can use their preferred fluff.
 


AdmundfortGeographer

Getting lost in fantasy maps
I read here that Psionics began as a system for psionic combat. In other words, psionics = weaponizing the mind. I went back and read the stuff from AD&D (1/2E) and understand a bit better now.

This sounds bloody cool (despite the terribly janky mechanics) and a SUPER easy way to make a Psion out of this. Hello??? A class dedicated to using the mind to tear people apart is a DOPE idea, and each subclass could easily capture another "method" as people see it.

You could have your "Champion" esque Psion subclass that relies on, IDK, spells or something basic.

You could have your "Battlemaster" esque Psion who has a bunch of different psi point powers she invests in to fuck things up with her mind.

Etc etc.
I like where this is going and see some potential.
 


Samloyal23

Adventurer
Wasn't the psionic combat system some awful mess? Like a five-way game of scissors-paper-stone where you only know a couple of the shapes and you can't start the rest of the combat until you've played ten rounds of this?

Do you believe that having that would be a good idea?

Telepathic combat was a multi-level strategic game-within-a-game. Add psionic harbingers and constructs from The Will & The Way and you have a wide range of options. I always looked forward to a mental battle.
 

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