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5E Psionics in Tasha

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
Magic dead areas are non-existant. They break too much crap, and cause too many headaches with "Well, My paladin's aura doesn't say it is a magical effect suppressed by anti-magic."

And, if you are talking a bit of nonsense in the terms of music. The sounds is the movement of air. Your mouth is moving the air. There is no middle step where you mouth interfaces with something and that something moves the air. The physical thing that is the sound is created directly by your actions, not by an intermediary force.
Open your mouth wide and breathe out. Then purse your lips to whistle. It's not the air, it the interface between the air and the music that provides the music. Whether that interface is your voice box, your lips or an instrument of some kinds, it's not your breath alone that does it.
 

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Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
I could've sworn that Spell Resistance didn't do anything to Psionics and vice versa with Power Resistance. But it's been forever since I've read the 3.5 Psionics Handbook. And if that was the case, then having anti-magic stuff have disadvantage Psionics would make sense.
They were interchangeable in 3.5. There was a paragraph that said that you could run them as completely separate, but then you'd have balance issues so be careful if you go that route. One DM I played with went that route and my Psion was much more powerful. I went the route of letting them affect one another as suggested, but imposed a -4 penalty. So if your SR was 18, you had MR 14 and vice versa.
 

My first response was eaten by the internet.

Open your mouth wide and breathe out. Then purse your lips to whistle. It's not the air, it the interface between the air and the music that provides the music. Whether that interface is your voice box, your lips or an instrument of some kinds, it's not your breath alone that does it.

An interface is a unique, third aspect that allows two systems to interact.

What is the interface between my body and the air?

My voice box? No, that is part of my body
My lips? No, that is part of my body

An instrument would be an interface. It is a third element, but is it necessary? Can I create music without an instrument? Yes, I can. Singing, whistling, clapping, all of these can create music, and I do not need a third element to be between myself and the air to do them.


This is why I keep saying you are wrong about the interface being necessary for magic. It can be helpful. It can make sense to have one that increases the power, or amplifies it, or changes it into something else (how a flute can change the pitch of what you are doing in unique ways). But it is not logically necessary. There is no reason to say that a magic-user cannot interact directly with magic to create spells. There is no reason to say that a unique, third element is needed.

Just because we can use an interface, does not mean that it is absolutely necessary to have an interface. Many worlds and conceptions of magic do not require it, and in fact, see the uses of Interfaces as inferior methods of using magic.


Not true. It's supernatural, but not necessarily magic.

A distinction that is only useful if people make it useful. Since all magical phenomena are supernatural by definition.
 





Shardstone

Adventurer
If only that wasn't IP.
Monk. :devil:

More seriously, I think that would depend on what it actually did and how it did it. "Psionic Martial class" has no actual flavour: What does this class actually do in combat and out of it?
Currently working up the story of the class now, since I always start from the story, but the name usually has some effect on that. Its very hard to find a good name though beyond "Psion" and...I'm still thinking WotC might one day make a Psion class.
 

Open your mouth wide and breathe out. Then purse your lips to whistle. It's not the air, it the interface between the air and the music that provides the music. Whether that interface is your voice box, your lips or an instrument of some kinds, it's not your breath alone that does it.
Not true. It's supernatural, but not necessarily magic.
Can't it be both?

For example most Monks don't throw spells around, but they all do use magic.
 
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Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
This is why I keep saying you are wrong about the interface being necessary for magic. It can be helpful. It can make sense to have one that increases the power, or amplifies it, or changes it into something else (how a flute can change the pitch of what you are doing in unique ways). But it is not logically necessary. There is no reason to say that a magic-user cannot interact directly with magic to create spells. There is no reason to say that a unique, third element is needed.

An interface isn't necessary for magic.

However default D&D states that spellcasting use some sort of interface. It's up to the DM, author, or world builder to choose the interface he/she/they like.
 

Currently working up the story of the class now, since I always start from the story, but the name usually has some effect on that. Its very hard to find a good name though beyond "Psion" and...I'm still thinking WotC might one day make a Psion class.
Psi-knight is kinda boring.

The class could have an emphasis on telekinetic powers, since those are the ones that not only fit with classic psionics, but also fit with use of weapons. The class could throw weapons and make them fight remotely, move themselves and shove or restrain opponents, and possibly even deflect attacks.
Names could be descriptive ( Kinetic Guardian ), Informal ("Bladeslinger", "Iron mind" ) or esoteric ( "Initiate of the Art of the Cut".)
 


An interface isn't necessary for magic.

However default D&D states that spellcasting use some sort of interface. It's up to the DM, author, or world builder to choose the interface he/she/they like.

But it is fair to acknowledge that this is a new development. 5e is the first edition to say that "every world" has some sort of interface.

And it is completely possible to say that your world does not have that interface. A statement that Max rejected, informing the poster that they were actually "subconciously" adding an interface, because it was impossible to have magic without one.

My argument is less about the RAW telling us that there is something like the weave in multiple places, and more about Max's complete disregard for people telling their own stories. By claiming that you have to have an interface, that subconciously you are creating an interface in your world, even when you state there is no interface. Max is going beyond, and into the realm of trying to define something beyond DnD and into the entire Fantasy genre.

I have no problem with the Weave. I have no problem with every official DnD world having something like the Weave. I have a problem with people stating that you must include something like the Weave in every homebrew world, because it is a mandatory function of the fiction of DnD.

It isn't. And you can't tell people how they must build their homebrew worlds.
 

Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
But it is fair to acknowledge that this is a new development. 5e is the first edition to say that "every world" has some sort of interface.

well4e did so too.
The difference is in 4e, only 5 classes actually casted "spells".

And it is completely possible to say that your world does not have that interface. A statement that Max rejected, informing the poster that they were actually "subconciously" adding an interface, because it was impossible to have magic without one.

Exactly. People can homebrew what ever they want.
But Out Of The Box rulesis that people who cast spell use an interface. Weave, True Names, Winds of Magic, Magic Heraldry, Bloodlines, orwhatever.
You can takeout the interface but then the mechanics stops matching the lore without additional homebrew rules.

My argument is less about the RAW telling us that there is something like the weave in multiple places, and more about Max's complete disregard for people telling their own stories. By claiming that you have to have an interface, that subconciously you are creating an interface in your world, even when you state there is no interface. Max is going beyond, and into the realm of trying to define something beyond DnD and into the entire Fantasy genre.

I have no problem with the Weave. I have no problem with every official DnD world having something like the Weave. I have a problem with people stating that you must include something like the Weave in every homebrew world, because it is a mandatory function of the fiction of DnD.

It isn't. And you can't tell people how they must build their homebrew worlds.

People can build whatever they want, yes.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
A distinction that is only useful if people make it useful. Since all magical phenomena are supernatural by definition.
Hey. You're right! oxygen and hydrogen have no useful distinction, because they are both gases. Just like mind powers and magic have no useful distinction, because both are supernatural.

Or else both pairs are distinct in and of themselves, even if they share a category.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
Can't it be both?

For example most Monks don't throw spells around, but they all do use magic.
It could have been both had Gygax created it that way. He didn't, though, and so we have a lot of people for whom that distinction is very important. For the record, I personally don't care if they do make it magic, so long as they don't try to make the powers into spells and/or have components be necessary.
 



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