Psionics Survey Results: Generally Positive But More Work Needed

WotC has published the results of last month's psionics survey. They indicate a generally positive reaction to the playtest psionics rules, with some aspects proving less popular, especially the way psionics and magic interact, and the mystic class itself getting lower scores. The general conclusion is that more work is needed on the psionics rules, and that there will be another draft in a couple of months.

Find the survey resuts here.

 

[Mercule]

There were people who actually liked the mystic and its take on psionics? Who were these people? Most of the feedback I heard about it here was entirely negative.

I thought they were passible. Not awesome, but not garbage. They don't fit what I've always used psionics for (wild-talent and other mutations caused by over-exposure to magic), but they have their own charm.

My biggest feedback is that psionics have absolutely nothing to do with the Far Realm and that the two shouldn't really even be mentioned in the same book. I genuinely don't see the connection.

 

[Jester David]

A skeleton of a setting is still a setting. Just like a skeleton crew is still a crew, just a bare bones one. The Crystal Gate is unique to the Nentir Vale setting, the Blood War the result of fighting over the Far Realm's shard of evil is unique to Nentir Vale, and the ancient empires of tieflings and dragonborn going to war is unique to Nentir Vale.

Much of that (crystal gate, shard of evil) is unrelated to the vale, and more the assumed cosmology of all worlds. The tiefling vs dragonborn war is neat but pretty much just a name; there is literally no details or date. Again, Keep on the Borderlands or even Red Hand of Doom was as much a "setting". All the lore on Nerath/Nentir could fill a 32-page book. It's not a setting, it's a location with backstory.

 

[Herobizkit]

I dunno, man...

3e's Expanded Player's Handbook (XPH) did everything _right_ with psionics, and carrying a lot of those mechanics to 5e casting was an amazing step.

But now there's little to differentiate psionics from being "mind magic".

The 3e psychic classes offered (Battlemind, Psion, Psychic Warrior, Psiknife and Wilder) were all very niche and sub-par compared to other classes. 4e did a good job at trying to bring Psionics to the fore, but again, the same problem arises - the other classes already do it, and they do it better. I mean, look at the mess the 4e Monk causes with its weapon-as-implement-but-actually-not-a-real-object with its Ki focus...

That said, I want Psionics to be able to be strapped to any class by having Psionic "specialties" for each class like 5e does now. It seems like the best option to me.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

1st I rated the mystic high, I like what they are doing...

I dunno, man...

3e's Expanded Player's Handbook (XPH) did everything _right_ with psionics, and carrying a lot of those mechanics to 5e casting was an amazing step.

But now there's little to differentiate psionics from being "mind magic".

The 3e psychic classes offered (Battlemind, Psion, Psychic Warrior, Psiknife and Wilder) were all very niche and sub-par compared to other classes. 4e did a good job at trying to bring Psionics to the fore, but again, the same problem arises - the other classes already do it, and they do it better. I mean, look at the mess the 4e Monk causes with its weapon-as-implement-but-actually-not-a-real-object with its Ki focus...

That said, I want Psionics to be able to be strapped to any class by having Psionic "specialties" for each class like 5e does now. It seems like the best option to me.

I think like arcane trickster and eldritch knight there is room for a sub class or two for that...

 

[MoonSong]

Where did you hear that there will be a Dragonlance setting next year? Everything I heard suggests that it'll be the Realms for the foreseeable future.


I am hoping to give the mystic a try here in a few weeks. The question for me is whether the class can work as the Dragonlance mystic or not. Typically, psionics has been shunned in Dragonlance due to its flavor. However, the 5e reskinning of psionics may make it more palatable.

Still not a good fit for the Dragonlance mystic, the dragonlancce mystics are better known for godless miracles, not for moving stuff with their minds or frying their enemies brains ... Maybe the best place for them is a sorcerer subclass

 

[Mirtek]

That was really more of a location. You could easily cram that whole region into an unexplored chunk of most settings.

Not if you count the new 4e planar structure as extension to nentir vale

 

[Remathilis]

Much of that (crystal gate, shard of evil) is unrelated to the vale, and more the assumed cosmology of all worlds. The tiefling vs dragonborn war is neat but pretty much just a name; there is literally no details or date. Again, Keep on the Borderlands or even Red Hand of Doom was as much a "setting". All the lore on Nerath/Nentir could fill a 32-page book. It's not a setting, it's a location with backstory.

I think its a bit more complicated than that, and that has everything to do with 4e's "one mythology" system.

Nentir Vale on its own is just a micro-setting. A couple of cities, dungeons, some wilderness, etc. In a certain regard, its no different than the Elsir Vale, the Valley of Obelisks, or Thunder Rift. On its own, it'd be nothing special beyond those settings.

However, most people also tack onto it the whole Dawn War mythology that is prevalent in the game, mostly due to their co-introduction and that Nentir relies heavily on it for its backstory. So the Astral Sea cosmology (which was supposed to be 4e universal, considering how they retconned both Faerun's and Eberron's cosmologies), the primordial/gods backstory (also later retconned into Faerun), and several of the "ancient history" elements of the world (tiefling/dragonborn wars, Nerath, etc) got associated with Nentir Vale, making it seem far more world-like than say Thunder Rift or Elsir Vale (in 3e) did.

I'm sure that if 4e had been more successful, another round of adventures or a different Dungeon AP would have fleshed out another corner of the world, using much of the Dawn War mythology and history but ignoring Nentir as the home base location. In time, the "World of D&D" would have formed and Nentir would have been no bigger a part of it than Karameikos is to the Known World or the Dalelands is to Faerun.

That said, I think when most people want "Nentir Vale" as a setting, they also want the Dawn War Mythos, the expanded map ideas, the Astral Sea cosmology, and most of the default 4e "core" concepts (racial origins, etc) solidified into a setting on par with Realms, Dragonlance, or Eberron. In essence, boil 4e's default fluff down into a single setting that for lack of a better name is associated with the default starting location in the DMG.

 

[Jester David]

Not if you count the new 4e planar structure as extension to nentir vale

Not really, as that stuff was also added to the Realms and Eberron and Dark Sun.

 

[Coffinthrower]

This, definitely. The Conquest of Nerath boardgame, Threats to Nentir Vale, and several Dungeon adventures contained a lot more info that filled the place out to a full setting. Coupled with 4E's wonderful cosmology, and you'd have a killer setting book.

 

[Yaarel]

There are moreorless three levels of a setting.

• The cosmic setting or cosmology. For example the absence or presence of the Great Wheel, the 4e World Axis, the Feywild, the Ether, the Far Realms, the phlogiston of Spelljammer, and so on.

• The world setting or world map. For example, Eberron, Greyhawk Oerth, and so on.

• The regional setting, often a prominent town and its environs. For example, Nentir Vale, Drow Menzoberranzan, Neverwinter, Sword Coast, etcetera.



The cosmic setting is the all-encompassing ‘canopy’ that defines the tone and spirit of the game, and whatever is possible or impossible for the heroes to do. The cosmic setting is the main determiner of genre and branding.

The regional setting is the actualization, where the adventures actually happen. The world setting is intermediary giving the heroes ‘space’ to explore and the DM ‘space’ to plug-and-play different kinds of adventures with thematically different regions.

Ideally, a DM can without modification plug-and-play any regional setting into any world setting. Even any world setting into any cosmic setting.

It is vital for character classes to avoid cosmic assumptions, and thus function different in any setting whether Realms, Eberron, Darksun, Modern, or so on, whatever the setting is that the DM is responsible for.

4e made an error by imposing a one-setting-to-rule-them-all. It imposed the World Axis and specific creatures into every cosmic setting. 5e seems to be making a similar error by imposing the multiverse as the one-setting-to-rule-them-all, and by baking Realms flavor into the core rules.