Push+Wall=save

[catsclaw227]

Interestingly, the PC in my campaign has discovered that Blade Barrier and forced movement are tasty monster killers --- but I had forgotten about this rule.

Would it be safe to assume that it would fall under this category? It doesn't say anything about blocking LoS in the power description (PHB - Page 67) so I will assume that a creature gets a save for being forced into it.

 

[lukelightning]

Don't forget the "fall prone" part of the rule. If you save you are still prone; I see this as the target throwing itself to the ground or against the force pushing it in order to avoid being moved at all cost.

 

[Ravingdork]

The short answer is this "if you do not let enemies have a save when being forced into wizard effects that will damage them" the game becomes inexorably broken and everyone ought to just roll a wizard so you can maximize sustaining damage effects.

Absolutley! I learned of this real quick when one of my players attempted to use a Slide power to move an enemy into and out of a wall of fire repeatedly in an attempt to get Wall of Fire damage x5 in one attack!

I allowed the enemy a save (which he failed) then he got thrown into the fire and took fire wall damage once.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Absolutley! I learned of this real quick when one of my players attempted to use a Slide power to move an enemy into and out of a wall of fire repeatedly in an attempt to get Wall of Fire damage x5 in one attack!

Remember that it costs three squares of movement to enter Wall of Fire... and while forced movement ignores difficult terrain, the 3 squares is not a difficult terrain effect; it's simply a property of Wall of Fire, and in theory still applies.

So if you have a Push 1, you can't force someone into Wall of Fire - there aren't enough squares of movement in your power.

If you have a Slide 5, you can't slide then in-out-in-out-in, because by the time you've slid them in and out once, you don't have enough slide left to get them back in again.

(I'm away from my PHB - it might be 3 extra squares, for a total of 4. But it's more than 1, anyway!)

-Hyp.

 

[elecgraystone]

"Entering a square occupied by the wall costs 3 extra squares of movement."

 

[Ravingdork]

Pick any other effect that damages "upon entering the area" then. It could be seriously broken if that interpretation is allowed.

 

[catsclaw227]

Remember that it costs three squares of movement to enter Wall of Fire... and while forced movement ignores difficult terrain, the 3 squares is not a difficult terrain effect; it's simply a property of Wall of Fire, and in theory still applies.

Interesting that this type of parameter isn't made explicit with Blade Barrier. You can basically move creatures in and out of the squares, as far as I can tell.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Interesting that this type of parameter isn't made explicit with Blade Barrier. You can basically move creatures in and out of the squares, as far as I can tell.

Until and unless they make a save to fall prone, yeah.

-Hyp.

 

[tintagel]

One word: LAVA

In 4th, it's insta-kill. So 45% death on a save.

Pwnzor

 

[keterys]

Where are the rules that it's insta kill?