question about armor

[dragonfriend7738]

So, a player of mine is rolling up a new character, and wants to buy the Armor of the Unending Hunt (+2 chainmail -body slot- that grants immunity to fatigue and exhaustion) and the Shirt of Chain (chain shirt -torso slot- that grants dr 5/piercing) from the MIC.

Cost issues aside, would you allow a character to wear both of these at the same time? If so, what kind of AC bonuses and penalties would you give them? If not, why?

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Benefits of the same type do not stack.

A "+something Armor Bonus" will not stack with another "+something Armor Bonus".

Therefore, use the higher to determine AC. Use the worse Dex penalties, etc.

If they occupy different body slots you should be able to wear both and the immunities and the DR affects should both work.

 

[Keldin]

So, a player of mine is rolling up a new character, and wants to buy the Armor of the Unending Hunt (+2 chainmail -body slot- that grants immunity to fatigue and exhaustion) and the Shirt of Chain (chain shirt -torso slot- that grants dr 5/piercing) from the MIC.

The Shirt of Chains grants DR 3/piercing, not 5/piercing.

Cost issues aside, would you allow a character to wear both of these at the same time? If so, what kind of AC bonuses and penalties would you give them? If not, why?

The Shirt of Chains is no different than any other kind of vest, so yes, they stack. Despite what it sounds like, it isn't armor. Someone wearing both would have the same bonuses/penalties as anyone else wearing +2 Mithral Chainmail, be immune to fatigue and exhaustion, and have DR 3/piercing.

 

[GMMichael]

Problem 1 with wearing both: a chain shirt and chainmail are the same thing: at least in the torso area. So one of them would have to be one or two sizes (clothing size, not creature size) larger to fit over the other.

Problem 2: immunity to fatigue and exhaustion aside, wearing two chain shirts is cumbersome. I didn't see any encumbrance immunity in there.

Problem 3: if a magic item isn't touching or right next to the skin, it's probably not close enough to grant powers. Which is why you can't wear a hood over a periapt over a crown over a cap over a tiara.

Solution 1: if the Shirt of Chains is just a vest (that reduces slashing like normal chain (but why bludgeoning?)) then you could wear that, no problem, under chainmail. Just don't stack your bonuses. Unless it's a Dodge bonus.

 

[Dandu]

if a magic item isn't touching or right next to the skin, it's probably not close enough to grant powers. Which is why you can't wear a hood over a periapt over a crown over a cap over a tiara.

Or a belt with trousers.

 

[Stormonu]

Or a belt with trousers.

Must be why there are no magic socks.

 

[delericho]

Benefits of the same type do not stack.

A "+something Armor Bonus" will not stack with another "+something Armor Bonus".

Therefore, use the higher to determine AC. Use the worse Dex penalties, etc.

If they occupy different body slots you should be able to wear both and the immunities and the DR affects should both work.

This. Especially since...

The Shirt of Chains is no different than any other kind of vest, so yes, they stack. Despite what it sounds like, it isn't armor.

 

[Arkhandus]

Rumbletiger, Keklin, and delericho are right.

And I'd XP you again Dandu but apparently I haven't spread it around enough, what with me not reading/posting much in the past year.

Problem 1 with wearing both: a chain shirt and chainmail are the same thing: at least in the torso area. So one of them would have to be one or two sizes (clothing size, not creature size) larger to fit over the other.

Problem 2: immunity to fatigue and exhaustion aside, wearing two chain shirts is cumbersome. I didn't see any encumbrance immunity in there.

Problem 3: if a magic item isn't touching or right next to the skin, it's probably not close enough to grant powers. Which is why you can't wear a hood over a periapt over a crown over a cap over a tiara.

Solution 1: if the Shirt of Chains is just a vest (that reduces slashing like normal chain (but why bludgeoning?)) then you could wear that, no problem, under chainmail. Just don't stack your bonuses. Unless it's a Dodge bonus.

1: Magic armor and clothing generally adjusts itself to fit the wearer, as described in the DMG.
2: There are no encumbrance mechanics of the sort you imply; vests or robes or shirts that are not specifically noted as armor do not impose any armor check penalty, though the items may have a weight listed, and you always count the weight towards your total carrying capacity.
3: There's no requirement of any kind about needing skin contact or nearly-skin-contact to benefit from a magic item, you just have to be wearing it in the appropriate area (no wrapping a magic necklace around your forearm and trying to make it function as a magic bracelet). There's just a game-mechanical restriction against benefitting from more than 1 magic item in each "slot", which is pretty abstract in the first place (many magic items are likely to physically overlap to some degree when worn, like a magic ring worn under a magic glove). Nothing physically prevents you from wearing 10 or even 20 magic rings (fingers and toes), only game mechanics. Which say nothing about needing skin contact with a magic item.

Just cuz I'm a nitpicker.

 

[PureGoldx58]

Rumbletiger, Keklin, and delericho are right.

And I'd XP you again Dandu but apparently I haven't spread it around enough, what with me not reading/posting much in the past year.

1: Magic armor and clothing generally adjusts itself to fit the wearer, as described in the DMG.
2: There are no encumbrance mechanics of the sort you imply; vests or robes or shirts that are not specifically noted as armor do not impose any armor check penalty, though the items may have a weight listed, and you always count the weight towards your total carrying capacity.
3: There's no requirement of any kind about needing skin contact or nearly-skin-contact to benefit from a magic item, you just have to be wearing it in the appropriate area (no wrapping a magic necklace around your forearm and trying to make it function as a magic bracelet). There's just a game-mechanical restriction against benefitting from more than 1 magic item in each "slot", which is pretty abstract in the first place (many magic items are likely to physically overlap to some degree when worn, like a magic ring worn under a magic glove). Nothing physically prevents you from wearing 10 or even 20 magic rings (fingers and toes), only game mechanics. Which say nothing about needing skin contact with a magic item.

Just cuz I'm a nitpicker.

A) I don't think anyone can XP dandu anymore, because in all arguments, he wins.

B) You CAN wear 10/20/100/1,000,000 magic rings, but only two are active at any time and there are no rules for changing the active ones aside from just putting it on. Unless there is a rule stating otherwise that I overlooked.

C) Skin contact, I agree is silly. As Dandu pointed out, belts don't touch skin any more closely than a vest touches skin when worn over armor. Heck you can wear cloaks over plate armor without it touching you and it still works.


Easy as one, two, three) Magic items always resize themselves to their wearer, this was implemented because it is fun and makes things far more simple....and LOTOR does it.

 

[GMMichael]

To quote an old wise man, "if a magic item isn't touching or right next to the skin." Nitpick about the former part all you want.

I prefer to think about how the fantasy world behaves, not how the rules say it behaves. The rules say that you can only wear two magic rings. I want to know why. Is there a chakra on each hand, and the first ring worn places mystical dibs on it? Great. Magic items resize to fit the wearer. Why? Does every magic sword you pick up change its length a bit so that it wouldn't be unwieldy? It is really so hard to take your new-found magic ring to the jeweler, and have it resized? Or take your +1 chainmail suit to the armorsmith, to have a few loose links removed?

My observations on encumbrance were based on OP's details about the Shirt of Chain. If it's not armor, fine. If it is armor, and it magically resizes, then it still weighs 25 pounds (according to one D&D book), and it still has an armor check penalty. So, I would call that an encumbrance mechanic.