Question about the Witch King in LOTR

[shilsen]

Here is another thought, Glorfindel's prophecy wasn't referring to the fact that no man COULD kill the Witch King, but rather that no man WOULD kill the Witch King. A moment of Elven foresight having shown him the true future of the Witch King he would be safe in saying that.

If the Witch King heard of it and took it to mean that none COULD harm him, well, that just sets him up for the fall.

Yup. It's very clearly set as a prophecy:

Glorfindel, looking into the gathering dark, said: "Do not pursue him! He will not return to this land. Far off yet is his doom, and not by the hand of man will he fall."

 

[Vocenoctum]

Yup. It's very clearly set as a prophecy:

Glorfindel, looking into the gathering dark, said: "Do not pursue him! He will not return to this land. Far off yet is his doom, and not by the hand of man will he fall."

Throughout the movie's, "man" always seems to mean "humans", so I wonder if Pippin really was the Hand that Fell him. Perhaps Glorfindel wasn't sure if the others would know what he meant if he had said "dude, some hobbit's gonna whack him."

But, the reason I brought the topic back; Does Pippin even have the Barrow sword after being held captive by the orcs? I recall them finding the scabbards in the movie, but don't recall swords. Not having RotK, I can't really check the sword he stabs with, but some of the board members will probably see the movie again tommorow anyway

The book is specific about the barrow sword, but does it explain how he still had it?

 

[shilsen]

But, the reason I brought the topic back; Does Pippin even have the Barrow sword after being held captive by the orcs? I recall them finding the scabbards in the movie, but don't recall swords. Not having RotK, I can't really check the sword he stabs with, but some of the board members will probably see the movie again tommorow anyway

The book is specific about the barrow sword, but does it explain how he still had it?

Yes. Aragorn returns the blades to the hobbits when he meets them at Isengard (in the chapter "Flotsam and Jetsam", IIRC). And it's Merry who stabs the Witch-King, not Pippin.

 

[Sir Whiskers]

Yeah they needed their own digs. Sauron doesn't mind fire. Probably why he had control of the Barlogs during the first couple wars against the elves and the Men of Numeron(sp).

Just to clarify, the balrogs never really served Sauron. They were basically fallen angels corrupted by Sauron's master, Morgoth. Sauron served Morgoth and might have been given balrogs for specific tasks (I can't remember any examples of this though), but the balrogs always served Morgoth during the First Age.

The only balrog mentioned after the First Age was "Durin's Bane", the balrog that drove the dwarves out of Khazad-Dum, which then became known as Moria.

I think that's taking it a little too far. There were a bunch of such knives in the barrow, and many barrows. And there's no reason to think the one the hobbits happened into was particularly special.

Actually, this is a theme throughout Tokien's works. I don't remember if the line is in the first movie, but in the book, Gandalf tells Frodo that the Ring was meant to be found by Bilbo; that forces were at work in that moment, and forces other than Sauron caused Bilbo to find it. Which meant that Frodo was intended to receive the Ring. Gandalf meant this to be comforting to Frodo, though I doubt Frodo saw it that way.

Having Merry "just happen" to end up with the blade most likely to harm the Witch King is just another example of the work of fate in Middle Earth. It's perfectly consistent with Tolkien's mythos.

 

[Particle_Man]

Someone says:

"All nine were there by the time they got to the ford of Rivendell.
And regarding that, the flood killed their horses, and washed their
clothing and armor away, leaving them nothing but ghosts who
couldn't really interact with the living world. Gandalf says something
about them having to make their way back to Mordor as pale
shadows."

And all I can do is think of Pac-Man

 

[The Serge]

Actually, this is a theme throughout Tokien's works. I don't remember if the line is in the first movie, but in the book, Gandalf tells Frodo that the Ring was meant to be found by Bilbo; that forces were at work in that moment, and forces other than Sauron caused Bilbo to find it. Which meant that Frodo was intended to receive the Ring. Gandalf meant this to be comforting to Frodo, though I doubt Frodo saw it that way.

Gandalf says what you've written almost word for word in the movie adaptation of FotR.

 

[kengar]

The knives from the Barrow Downs were forged long before by the men of Westernesse and had been used in battle against the Witch King when he ruled in Angmar to the North. It wasn't that Merry had a "magic" blade, it's simply that those knives were superior to normal knives. The nature of magic in Middle Earth tends to be subtle like that, where the line between skill and enchantment is difficult to draw.

 

[Merlion]

I always assumed the barrow-weapons would have much the same effect against any of the 9. That they are as some have already said "ghost-touch ringwraith bane" weapons. I dont see why any normal weapon would be able to hurt any of the Nazgul as they have no bodies.
Consider the larger issue though...none of the Nazgul are supposed to be able to be destroyed as long as the One exists. But Eowyn and Merry pretty much whacked the Witch-King. How did they manage that prophecy or no?

 

[Vocenoctum]

I always assumed the barrow-weapons would have much the same effect against any of the 9. That they are as some have already said "ghost-touch ringwraith bane" weapons. I dont see why any normal weapon would be able to hurt any of the Nazgul as they have no bodies.
Consider the larger issue though...none of the Nazgul are supposed to be able to be destroyed as long as the One exists. But Eowyn and Merry pretty much whacked the Witch-King. How did they manage that prophecy or no?

I kind of figured the Nazgul always reformed eventually, so that the WitchKing would have returned soon enough had the One Ring not been destroyed.

Can't back that with anything though.

 

[Merlion]

You may well be right, but several days did pass between his battle with Arwen and the destruction of the One. and the passage in the book seems pretty final..