Question for the grognards: Why does D&D have dwarves/elves/hobbits etc.?

[dcas]

Funny thing is, IIRC, orcs are never really described physically in Tolkien, so, they could look like anything. But, savage race that sees in the dark, hates elves and wants to conquer the world is pretty darn close thematically.

They are said to be squint-eyed, swarthy, bow-legged, long-armed, and to walk with their hands close to the ground. What more physical description do you need?

My guess is that Tolkien's orcs look more or less like brutish humans with the physical attributes I've listed above. It seems fairly easy for "half-orcs" in LOTR to pass as men.

 

[Hussar]

They are said to be squint-eyed, swarthy, bow-legged, long-armed, and to walk with their hands close to the ground. What more physical description do you need?

My guess is that Tolkien's orcs look more or less like brutish humans with the physical attributes I've listed above. It seems fairly easy for "half-orcs" in LOTR to pass as men.

Heh. I dunno, things like hair, skin color, stuff like that. Heck, do we even know how tall a LOTR orc is? BTW, that description fits a certain corporal from Basic to a "T".

 

[mmadsen]

They are said to be squint-eyed, swarthy, bow-legged, long-armed, and to walk with their hands close to the ground. What more physical description do you need?

I believe that Tolkien said that his orcs were described the way medieval Europeans described the Huns and Mongols of the steppes.

 

[Desdichado]

Heh. I dunno, things like hair, skin color, stuff like that. Heck, do we even know how tall a LOTR orc is? BTW, that description fits a certain corporal from Basic to a "T".

Sallow skin and black skin are both mentioned, actually. Ape-like build is suggested for Grishnakh and a few others. Fangs are mentioned several times, as is coarse body hair.

We know that orcs are shorter than men--Frodo and Sam are able to disguise themselves as small orcs, and a few orcs that are "almost man high" are described as particularly large and powerful for their race.

In any case, I daresay we know at least as much about the appearance of orcs in Tolkien as we do about much of anyone else. More than several main characters.

 

[dcas]

We know that orcs are shorter than men--Frodo and Sam are able to disguise themselves as small orcs, and a few orcs that are "almost man high" are described as particularly large and powerful for their race.

Yes, and one of the ruffians killed in the Battle of Bywater is described as "a great squint-eyed brute like a huge orc." So I think it would be possible for some orcs to just about pass for brutish humans, at least as far as their appearance is concerned (their manners are something else entirely ).

 

[Desdichado]

Yes, and one of the ruffians killed in the Battle of Bywater is described as "a great squint-eyed brute like a huge orc." So I think it would be possible for some orcs to just about pass for brutish humans, at least as far as their appearance is concerned (their manners are something else entirely ).

Exactly. And appearances are a little bit muddled by the fact that Saruman was apparently specifically breeding two kinds of cross-breeds--orcs that had a bit of man in them and could stand the sun, but who were obviously still orcs (the Uruk-hai that captured Pippin and Merry being the iconic example here) and men who were savage and somewhat orc-like, but who were still clearly men (the brutes from the Battle of Bywater, the squint-eyed Southron spy in Bree, the soldiers of the Battle of the Fords of Isen described in Unfinished Tales, etc. being the iconic examples there.)

But there does seem to still be a clear dichotomy not only between those two breeds, but also between descriptions of orcs of Mordor and those of Isengard. It's never laid out well in a single place, but there's a lot of little descriptive text here and there sprinkled throughout the work.

 

[Geoffrey]

I believe that Tolkien said that his orcs were described the way medieval Europeans described the Huns and Mongols of the steppes.

I don't have it in hand, but in his collected letters Tolkien says orcs look like the most degraded of Mongols. I think Tolkien conceived of orcs as looking a lot more human than most D&D players imagine orcs to look.

 

[Desdichado]

...they are (or were) squat, broad, flat-nosed, sallow-skinned, with wide mouths and slant eyes; in fact degraded and repulsive versions of the (to Europeans) least lovely Mongol-types.
— The Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien, #210.

(Thanks Wikipedia). Conversely, the way the Huns were described by Roman chroniclers makes them sounds significantly less human in appearance then by all reasonable accounts they likely were. I think it likely that Tolkien was purposefully imitating that meme, especially considering that the Nibelungenlied is a very likely proximate source and inspiration for elements of Middle-earth itself. Even if not, the body of Germanic myth and legend would still refer to the Huns as half-men half-devil and whatnot in other sources as well.

 

[Nightfall]

Fine, Conan and Elric verus undead/living cheese.

 

[Brennin Magalus]

That's nothing compared to Chainmail, where the contempt is literally dripping from the page - something along the lines of "these diminutive chaps have little place in a wargame, but if you really wish to include them, here are the stats".

LOL!