Question: ganging up rules?

[Lalato]

Just a quick question... are there any rules on ganging up on someone. In other words... are there any rules where a group of low-level city guardsman can take on someone of higher level without being schooled?

I understand there are flanking rules, but I'm looking for something where say 20 people just bum rush some guy. In real life no mattter how good someone is they would eventually just be overwhelmed (unless, of course, I'm looking for a cinematic game in which the hero can take on hoarde after hoarde of mooks).

--sam

 

[TheFan]

The best thing I would say is for aid another actions. If the guy is surrounded by 8 guards and 7 aid another on the 1st guard, then the 1st guard gets +14 to hit. That should even the odds up a little bit.

 

[mikebr99]

The best thing I would say is for aid another actions. If the guy is surrounded by 8 guards and 7 aid another on the 1st guard, then the 1st guard gets +14 to hit. That should even the odds up a little bit.

Yup... Grappling w/ Aid Other.

Mike

 

[drnuncheon]

In real life no mattter how good someone is they would eventually just be overwhelmed (unless, of course, I'm looking for a cinematic game in which the hero can take on hoarde after hoarde of mooks).

...you mean a game like D&D? D&D is specifically designed for people to take on hordes of mooks and win.

If you don't like this, I'd suggest using lower levels in general (so the difference between hero and mook is not as great) and maybe look into a different hit point system. (VP/WP is one possibility, as is a modified 'damage save' mechanic as seen in M&M and Unearthed Arcana - by adjusting the damage save progression you can easily fine-tune the level of lethality.)

Alternately, play GURPS.

J

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

Use a guard swarm... aplicants must be under 2ft tall!

One GM I played under had a house rule on it (and every other 'unrealistic' thing in the game ): Every person flanking beyond the 2nd increased the flanking bonus by 2. Anyone joining an attack on a flanked target counted as flanking it...

So
2 people +2 hit each
3 people +4 hit each
4 people +6 hit each
Etc.
I guess Up to:
+112 each for 1 victim +8 guys. +16 guys with reach. +24 guys with 3.5 whips. +16 enlarged guys with enlarged whips)

I got extremely frustrated with the whole campaign and stopped playing not long after this rule was introduced, so not sure how it worked. I'm guessing it would make summon D4+1 monster spells extremely popular for fighting BBEGs.


The principle seems OK though - perhaps a less stupid modification on it could be quite workable?

 

[mikebr99]

Use a guard swarm... aplicants must be under 2ft tall!

One GM I played under had a house rule on it (and every other 'unrealistic' thing in the game ): Every person flanking beyond the 2nd increased the flanking bonus by 2. Anyone joining an attack on a flanked target counted as flanking it...

So
2 people +2 hit each
3 people +4 hit each
4 people +6 hit each
Etc.
I guess Up to:
+112 each for 1 victim +8 guys. +16 guys with reach. +24 guys with 3.5 whips. +16 enlarged guys with enlarged whips)

Whips don't threaten... so no flanking.

​

The whip is treated as a melee weapon with 15-foot reach, though you don’t threaten the area into which you can make an attack.​

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Mike

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

Whips don't threaten... so no flanking.

Dammit!

I guess that limits it to the 8 guys + 16 'reachers' + 12 enlarged 'reachers'... Only +70 to the attacks (1st guy doesn't add). It's not so impressive, but I guess it'd still smart in the morning!

I can see where it's coming from, but don't think this particular version is a sensible rule. Curse that house ruling DM with no idea about maths!

 

[mikebr99]

Dammit!

I guess that limits it to the 8 guys + 16 'reachers' + 12 enlarged 'reachers'... Only +70 to the attacks (1st guy doesn't add). It's not so impressive, but I guess it'd still smart in the morning!

I can see where it's coming from, but don't think this particular version is a sensible rule. Curse that house ruling DM with no idea about maths!

Did he also take into account the cover bonus to AC for the target that the 24 guys and reachers would be providing against the enlarged reachers?

Mike

 

[mikebr99]

The 15th level Fighter in the DMG. has a +19 Grapple... One Orc and 7 helpers would have a +18 Grapple. Not to bad for a 0 exp. encounter.

Mike

 

[JimAde]

Dammit!

I guess that limits it to the 8 guys + 16 'reachers' + 12 enlarged 'reachers'... Only +70 to the attacks (1st guy doesn't add). It's not so impressive, but I guess it'd still smart in the morning!

I can see where it's coming from, but don't think this particular version is a sensible rule. Curse that house ruling DM with no idea about maths!

Sounds like that DM didn't quite grasp the Aid Another rules. As mikebr99 points out above, if all those flankers just aid one or two attackers it can get pretty impressive. Maybe that's the effect he was going for.

Of course, that's when you find out the high-level guy you're attacking has Whirlwind Attack