Question on Hydra Fury, are all attacks at the same time?

[Stalker0]

This particularly applies to the new Razor Hydra from MM2. They have an ability that gives them a +2 to attack rolls against targets suffering from ongoing damage. There bite provides ongoing damage.

So my question is lets say they begin a hydra fury attack, and on the first attack hit. Do they get a +2 on the 3 other attacks against the target, or would all attacks happen at the same time, and all would get no bonus?

 

[mach1.9pants]

I don't have MM2 but, IMO, if it is one entry that has multiple attacks (like the many at wills in MM1 that are just 2 of the monsters MBA) then I would rule that it doesn't get the extra. Until it has completed the entire attack
Just a IMC though, doubt I'd find rules to back it up

 

[keterys]

I'd actually rule that it would get the extra, but I'm similarly unable to completely justify that ruling...

I would be consistent, however - if your first attack dazes, then you get combat advantage. If the target has a bonus that kicks in when bloodied, that would trigger. If the target is teleported away due to some trigger of some sort, the other attacks wouldn't be valid, etc.

 

[Jhaelen]

I don't have MM2 but, IMO, if it is one entry that has multiple attacks (like the many at wills in MM1 that are just 2 of the monsters MBA) then I would rule that it doesn't get the extra.

That's how I'd rule it, too.

 

[fba827]

If it's all included as part of one attack power entry, and it doesn't say secondary attack as part of it, then I'd have all the attacks happening simultaneously.

If it was a second attack power entry, or it had a "secondary attack" clause within the one attack power entry, then I would have them happening in succession.

Why? I have no justification for this other than to say it makes sense to me this way and therefore I choose to go with that.

Disclaimer: I don't have the books handy, just going on what is written here and what I remember in my ever-aging brain...

 

[Nifft]

On the flip side, making all attacks into a single atomic event gives the already mighty Immediate Interrupt quite a bit more potency.

Wizard's Escape (ArcP, Utility 6), for example: if the Hydra targets the Wizard with all four attacks, and the fourth attack kills him, could he Interrupt the first attack and avoid all damage?

I'd rather resolve the attacks (and effects) one at a time.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Mephistopheles]

This particularly applies to the new Razor Hydra from MM2. They have an ability that gives them a +2 to attack rolls against targets suffering from ongoing damage. There bite provides ongoing damage.

So my question is lets say they begin a hydra fury attack, and on the first attack hit. Do they get a +2 on the 3 other attacks against the target, or would all attacks happen at the same time, and all would get no bonus?

From your description - I don't have MM2 - my understanding is that the hydra can attack one target with each head, as normal for a hydra, and applies ongoing damage to any targets it hits. Alternatively it could make all its attacks against one target and gain a +2 to hit on any attacks that come after one attack has landed and applied the ongoing damage. It's buying a +2 to hit to apply bite damage at the cost of a dose of ongoing damage that could have been applied to another target. It seems like a trade off to me and I don't see any problem running Hydra Fury as a series of attacks because of that ability.

 

[Stalker0]

From your description - I don't have MM2 - my understanding is that the hydra can attack one target with each head, as normal for a hydra, and applies ongoing damage to any targets it hits. Alternatively it could make all its attacks against one target and gain a +2 to hit on any attacks that come after one attack has landed and applied the ongoing damage. It's buying a +2 to hit to apply bite damage at the cost of a dose of ongoing damage that could have been applied to another target. It seems like a trade off to me and I don't see any problem running Hydra Fury as a series of attacks because of that ability.

Hehe not for this hydra, its ongoing damage increases every time it hits.

That's right ladies and gentlemen, when 4 attacks hit thats ongoing 20 damage!!

FBA87 has made the best case for me so far with the lack of secondary attacks, so I'll go with that for now.

 

[keterys]

The amplifying ongoing damage actually implies to me that it's designed to be handled serially (ie, get the +2 bonus) and that when it attacks someone four times it's intended to stack the ongoing to 10-20, not just 5 per round.

I guess, slight variant on the question. Someone has six attacks of '10 damage and push 2', and declares six attacks on someone... do they roll the six attacks, then push the target 6-12 squares after seeing which hit? Or do they have to choose whether to push the target out of range or not after the first hit?

 

[Mephistopheles]

Hehe not for this hydra, its ongoing damage increases every time it hits.

That's right ladies and gentlemen, when 4 attacks hit thats ongoing 20 damage!!

FBA87 has made the best case for me so far with the lack of secondary attacks, so I'll go with that for now.

Sounds nasty.

Still, I think I'd play it out as a series of attacks rather than one simultaneous multi-attack. Either way seems valid as written, but I think the latter may cause other problems.

One example that comes to mind is immediate actions that trigger movement. Such powers could be used in response to the first attack in the series to attempt to put the victim out of reach for the other attacks, but only if the attacks are resolved as a series; if all of the attacks are considered to happen at the same time the victim will be subject to all of them regardless. Angelic Visage (Invoker Utility 10) is an example of this kind of situation.