Question (Potential Breaking Combo)

[Torchlyte]

This combo is achievable at the 10th level. Take an elven rogue, max your dexterity, and multiclass into cleric for the daily power Blade Barrier. You will also need the level 1 rogue daily power Trick Strike.

Use Trick Strike, rerolling with elven accuracy if necessary. Pop an action point and create a Blade Barrier on top of an opponent, and you're done. On their turn they will be automatically sliced by the Blade Barrier and you can slide them into another section of the blade barrier, damaging and sliding them back and forth until they die.

This is obviously overpowered, but there is a question as to its legality. Trick Strike allows you to slide someone you hit, but Blade Barrier's damage is automatic... does it count as a hit? Likewise, if I were to use Cleave, would you count the secondary damage as a hit?

Whether or not this combo works by RAW, I'm intrigued by the combination of Blade Barrier and an Artful Dodger rogue's pushing/sliding powers. Any way you slice it, that's a lot of automatic damage.

 

[hong]

The blade barrier is doing the hitting, not you. So no dice.

 

[Torchlyte]

It's your attack power. The question isn't who's hitting, the question is whether it's a hit.

Edit.

Consider: Would you deny a Wizard the benefits of his Cold feats when he's using Bigby's Icy Grasp?

 

[Ganadai]

It's a good idea. I assume you are thinking that you could move the enemy around in the blade barrier until he died. However, blade barrier is not considered you hitting the target (because it doesn't have the "HIT" line), as Trick Strike requires.

You could cast the Blade Barrier on the target, and then spend an action point to use Trick Strike. That would be 3d6 + Wis Mod + 3[W] + Dex Mod + 2d6 (Sneak Attack) + 3d6 + Wis Mod + ongoing 5 damage. Not to shabby.

You could do the same thing with a Ranger using Thundertusk Boar Strike, but hit two targets instead of one.

Another question you need to ask is, does a creature take damage from blade barrier for each space it enters, or only once when it enters the blade barrier?

 

[hong]

Consider: Would you deny a Wizard the benefits of his Cold feats when he's using Bigby's Icy Grasp?

Why do you ask?

 

[Torchlyte]

@Ganadai: I understand this position, but I'm not sure it holds with all the vagaries of automatic damage. Let me see if I can find some more stuff from the PHB to illustrate my point...

Why do you ask?

Because it is the same, or nearly the same, situation. The conjuration of an attack power is doing automatic damage. Does sustaining Bigby's Icy Grasp activate lasting frost? If so, then my combo must also work.

 

[hong]

@Ganadai: I understand this position, but I'm not sure it holds with all the vagaries of automatic damage. Let me see if I can find some more stuff from the PHB to illustrate my point...



Because it is the same, or nearly the same, situation. The conjuration of an attack power is doing automatic damage. Does sustaining Bigby's Icy Grasp activate lasting frost? If so, then my combo must also work.

No, not really. Trick Strike involves some element of martial skill on the part of the rogue, implying that you have to be personally involved in the inflicting of damage for it to kick in. However, the wizard situation is less defined in such a way.

 

[FadedC]

Flavor aside, I believe you only hit your opponent when you make an attack roll. Since blade barrier isn't making attack rolls, it does not count as a hit.

With that being said, trick strike and blade barrier could still be a pretty good combo.

 

[Hypersmurf]

This is obviously overpowered, but there is a question as to its legality. Trick Strike allows you to slide someone you hit, but Blade Barrier's damage is automatic... does it count as a hit? Likewise, if I were to use Cleave, would you count the secondary damage as a hit?

No, and no.

With Cleave, you hit the target, and a creature next to you takes damage. The Hit entry of the power relates to the attack on the target. The creature next to you was not hit.

With Blade Barrier, a creature takes damage when it enters the barrier's space. The power has no Hit entry and no target; no creature is hit by the Blade Barrier power.

A Hit or a Miss is determined by an attack roll against a Target.

-Hyp.

 

[Torchlyte]

Flavor aside, I believe you only hit your opponent when you make an attack roll. Since blade barrier isn't making attack rolls, it does not count as a hit.

That makes sense certainly, but is it actually the case?

RAI seems to be that Bigby's Icy Grasp would activate Lasting Frost, but using this rule would invalidate that.