Question (Potential Breaking Combo)

[Hypersmurf]

Sure Strike is not a power that deals damage when it misses. When it misses it is a power that deals no damage. Ergo, if you have an ability that keys off a power doing damage it will not apply if the power does not.

Such when Stinking Cloud its targeted against multiple creatures it indeed is a power that targets multiple creatures. But when it does not, then it indeeds is not a power that targets multiple creatures.

And since then it is not a power that targets multiple creatures and it is an area power it must be a power that causes an obstruction when not cast onto multiple targets.

If we divide Powers into "Powers which deal damage" and "Powers which don't deal damage", Sure Strike is a power which deals damage.

If we divide Area Attacks into "Area attacks which affect multiple targets" and "Area attacks which create an obstacle", Stinking Cloud is an area attack which affects multiple targets, and Wall of Fire is an area attack which creates an obstacle.

-Hyp.

 

[spunky_mutters]

I think as long as the Blade Barrier is there I would consider it Hindering Terrain and give anyone forced through it a save to fall prone for each square that they would take damage.

 

[Goumindong]

If we divide Powers into "Powers which deal damage" and "Powers which don't deal damage", Sure Strike is a power which deals damage.

If we divide Area Attacks into "Area attacks which affect multiple targets" and "Area attacks which create an obstacle", Stinking Cloud is an area attack which affects multiple targets, and Wall of Fire is an area attack which creates an obstacle.

-Hyp.

No, they are both both. Since they can both be a power that deals damage and a power which doesn't.

If you're willing to be mutable with that definition to allow your interpretation of it then you also must be mutable about what is and isn't a target.

 

[James McMurray]

Consider a Wall of Fire and a Blade Barrier in an interlocking "C" shape:

[color=red]WW
W[/color][color=blue]BB[/color]
[color=red]WW[/color][color=blue]B
 BB[/color]

By Pushing someone 4 squares in a straight line, with no zig-zags, you get him to enter the Wall of Fire's space twice, and enter the Blade Barrier's space twice. Overlapping, no big deal; alternating, it gets nastier.

Given that Push doesn't forbid zig-zags, of course, you can get even nastier by having two parallel barriers:

[color=red]W[/color][color=blue]B[/color]
[color=red]W[/color][color=blue]B[/color]
[color=red]W[/color][color=blue]B[/color]
[color=red]W[/color][color=blue]B[/color]
[color=red]W[/color][color=blue]B[/color]

Now with a Push 5, you can hit five entries by zig-zagging. With a Slide 8, of course, the yo-yo goes from "damage per 2 squares" to "damage per square".

Wall of Fire takes 3 spaces of movement to enter, so you'd need more than a Push 4 or 5. It doesn't invalidate the idea, just that specific example.

 

[Skyscraper]

Wall of Fire takes 3 spaces of movement to enter, so you'd need more than a Push 4 or 5. It doesn't invalidate the idea, just that specific example.

I don't have the book in front of me to see Wall of Fire's description, but forced movement ignores difficult terrain so if the required 3 squares of movement are considered difficult terrain, then pushing someone into a Wall of Fire would still only require a single square per square of movement (is that clear? heh).

Sky

 

[Skyscraper]

So, i understand that you are trying to evaluate the RAW here to see how things would work, but the more i think about this the more i would lean with my previous ruling: allow someone to be forced into a damaging AoE or wall but allow a saving throw to avoid it. The argument about the wall possibly being an obstacle is of course relevant, but for the sake of fun in the game, i see forcing a creature into a wall as a plus. However, by allowing the saving throw you provide a way out for that creature.

Sky

 

[James McMurray]

It's not difficult terrain.

Entering a square occupied by the wall costs 3 extra squares of movement.

That's all it says. Also, I was wrong. I said it costs 3 squares, but it actually costs 4, plus any addition that might be caused by difficult or challenging terrain.

 

[Skyscraper]

Interesting. I wonder if they had that in mind when the wrote that. Or why they did it, generally. Apparently the other walls or area of effect spells do not require additional squares (or do they?), so i assume it is a fluff thing for Wall of Fire.

Sky

 

[James McMurray]

Wall of Ice prevents movement completely, and Stormcage's wall requires an extra square of movement (but isn't difficult terrain). The rest don't hamper movement.