Quick AoO question

[Hypersmurf]

I'm not sure about that. I think you would draw an AoO from both. But I'm not so sure.

You are wrong, but we'd like to hear your reasoning.

What action do you consider provokes an AoO from Y? He's not leaving one of Y's threatened spaces, and he's not performing an action that provokes an AoO within one of Y's threatened spaces.

-Hyp.

 

[Bastoche]

He going from a threaten area into another threatened area. IIRC the rule does not require the inbetween space to be threatened or not. I would have to verify my PHB to be dead sure though. It's not important to know who's threatening or not, you only have to know if you are threatened or not.

If it was two giants 20ft away from each other going from one to the other would provoke and AoO from both. Why it wouldn't be the case for 5' threateners (asuming you move more than 5')?

 

[jlhorner1974]

Edit: Delete duplicat post due to lag

 

[jlhorner1974]

It seems pretty simple to me.

If all you do is move, you don't provoke an AOO when you leave the square you started in (in the Player's Handbook terminology, the square you start in is "not considered to be threatened").

So he has backed away from Orc X doing nothing but moving, and X does not have a reach weapon, so no AOO.

(Of course, if you enter and leave another threatened square or if you attack later in the same turn, you are fair game for an AOO, but this has not happened in the above example.)

In the example above, Orc Y does not have a reach weapon. If he closes with Orc Y, has entered a square Orc Y threatens, but he has not *left* it, so no AOO.

I admit, somehow it doesn't make sense in a real-world way, but according to the rules, it's no AOO at all in that case.

Of course, if you have a justification, I'm more than interested in hearing it. Even the rules as written are not always the best.

 

[jlhorner1974]

In the case of giants, they all have reach, which makes it hard to get from one to another without entering and leaving several threatened squares. This is the difference, and this is what makes reach so powerful.

If the distance between giants is only 10 ft, you can make your 5 ft step (and even attack) without drawing AOOs because a 5 ft step does not draw AOOs no matter how many enemies threaten you.

If the giants are 15 ft apart and you disengage one to close on the other with your 5 ft reach weapon, then you are in trouble. Leaving the first space is okay, since you are exempt from AOO because you do not attack. But leaving the second space to close with the second giant is where they get you. Both giants threaten the second space with their reach and they each get an AOO when you leave that square.

And the rules of AOO state that it is not moving from one threatened area to another that triggers an AOO. Whether you end up in a threatened square or not doesn't matter for purposes of determining AOO.

It is leaving a threatened square that triggers an AOO, and there are several very specific exceptions to this.

In the example with the orcs above, the fact is that the character is only leaving *one* threatened square (the one he starts in) and that is specifically exempted from an AOO because all he did was move. Moving into a threatened area does not change this, as there is no penalty for entering a threatened square.

As I said, your interpretation makes more real world sense, but the rules say no AOO.

 

[Hypersmurf]

It's not important to know who's threatening or not, you only have to know if you are threatened or not.

That's completely wrong.

When he leaves Orc X's threatened space, he draws an AoO from all opponents who threaten that space. You can't make an AoO into a space you don't threaten. Orc Y doesn't threaten that space, so he can't make an AoO.

After leaving the space and drawing an AoO from Orc X, he enters Orc Y's threatened space. Entering a threatened space does not provoke an AoO, thus Orc Y does not make one.

If it was two giants 20ft away from each other going from one to the other would provoke and AoO from both. Why it wouldn't be the case for 5' threateners (asuming you move more than 5')?

Because when you advance on Giant Y, you leave one of his threatened spaces as you close on him because he has Reach. When you advance on Orc Y, you never leave one of his threatened spaces.

-Hyp.

 

[Bastoche]

I can't quote, but it's in the PHB on pasg 122 under "provoking an attack of opportunity".

If you move away from X to Y and do not attack at all, there is no AoO. Because the "threathened by X square" is not considered threathened.

But if you attack either X or Y and move from X to Y, you get an AoO from both. In the PHB, "ennemi" is plural. The way it's worded, it says if you move from a threatened area to another threathened area, you provoke an AoO from everyone who threathened you at one time or another. I read the entry a good 4-5 times to really understand it. IMO, the way it's written suggest that you would get an AoO from both X and Y. The SRD is not worded the same way as the PHB. Either the SRD is wrong or the PHB is unclear.

 

[Bastoche]

I got another example.

Let's P be the player, X be orc X and Y be orc Y.

at the begining of the round, they are placed like that:

X_PY

an underline designate a free 5' square.

Y wins the initiative and ready an action "When P moves to X, I whack P".

Now it's P's turn, he moves to X and get whacked but Y. Now they are placed like that:

XP_Y

Y's attack happens before P's move. And now P move 5 foot toward X. Having received quite a hit from Y, he wants to get revenge and whack back at Y. He still have movement left. He can't take a 5' step, he already moved. He returns to Y. Does Y and X get an AoO ? Why ?

X_PY

The point is if you move from X to Y which are 10 ft away one from the other and you aren't allowed a 5' step anymore, what happens with the AoOs ?

 

[IceBear]

Bastoche, I think you are making this more complicated than it is. If there are two orcs, X and Y, player P, and empty space _ in the following scenario:

X_PY

If P takes a 5ft step to X he does not suffer an AoO due to movement from anyone regardless of reach or actions. Period. That's what the 5ft tactical adjustment does for you. The player can attack X without suffering an AoO.

If, as in your example, the player moves to X (and it's not a 5ft tactical adjustment, but just moving 5ft - there is a BIG difference) and attacks then he would suffer an AoO from Y. If he moved to X and then back to Y and attacked, he would suffer AoO from both as he moved out of each's threatened areas without a 5ft tactical adjustment and did something other than moving. In this case, where he moves from Y to X and back to Y and attacks, he would suffer an AoO from Y as he moves to X and an AoO from X as he moves to Y.

Remember there is a difference between a 5ft tactical adjustment and moving 5ft.

Edit: Also, note that if the player just moved to X and back to Y and DIDN'T attack, he would still suffer an AoO from X. It's only the square that he started in that wasn't considered threatened.

IceBear

 

[Bastoche]

I made it conplicated so the 5foot move wouldn't be a tactical "5 foot step". But the rest of your anwsers clear it up, more or less...

When the PHB says that when you move within a threatened area, it is my understanding that it's irelevant to know who is threatening. You only have to know if the area is threatened or not. All those who threats the area gets an AoO if provoked by the character. In my example above, the only move made are within a threatened area. So I guess X gets an AoO not for P leaving his threat range but rather for P moving within a threatened area.

That said the way the rule is stated in the PHB, it's also irrelevant to know if in between spaces are free or not. If you move from a threatened area into another threatened area while you are not only moving, it's just like you were moving within a threatened area.

I guess I'm over analysing ?