Quicker than the Eye and AoO

[Hypersmurf]

Can the partial action hidden by Quicker than the Eye provoke an AoO from someone who is successfully bluffed?

For example, if they are "looking elsewhere" while one... drinks a potion? Casts a spell? Initiates a grapple? Flees?

-Hyp.

 

[Caliban]

Can the partial action hidden by Quicker than the Eye provoke an AoO from someone who is successfully bluffed?

For example, if they are "looking elsewhere" while one... drinks a potion? Casts a spell? Initiates a grapple? Flees?

-Hyp.

No. They aren't aware of the action you are taking. It's kind of the whole point of the feat.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Re: Re: Quicker than the Eye and AoO

No. They aren't aware of the action you are taking. It's kind of the whole point of the feat.

Given that an invisible person drinking a potion provokes an AoO, I didn't think it was cut-and-dried...

-Hyp.

 

[Caliban]

Re: Re: Re: Quicker than the Eye and AoO

Given that an invisible person drinking a potion provokes an AoO, I didn't think it was cut-and-dried...

-Hyp.

An invisible person drinking a potion doesn't automatically provoke an AoO. The attacker has to make a Listen or Spot check to be aware of the action you are taking. If they make it, they are aware that you have dropped your guard, and can try to take advantage of it. If they fail it, they aren't aware and can't take an AoO.

If they have successfully used Quicker than the Eye on you, then you have already failed your spot check.

Note that you may not know if they have been fooled by Quicker than the Eye or not. You don't really know until you try and take your action. (They may look away for a split second, but recover fast enough to take their AoO or react enough avoid a sneak attack: i.e they just made their spot check.)

 

[Hypersmurf]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Quicker than the Eye and AoO

An invisible person drinking a potion doesn't automatically provoke an AoO. The attacker has to make a Listen or Spot check to be aware of the action you are taking.

I understood that to be an interpretation you applied in your campaign... nothing on p78 covers Spot or Listen checks for anything other than being aware of the presence or exact location of an invisible creature.

I was under the impression that the Sage's answer to "Do invisible creatures provoke AoOs?" was "Yes.", although I admit I don't have a reference for that.

Do you have concrete evidence of your statements, or is it simply your interpretation of p78?

-Hyp.

 

[Caliban]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Quicker than the Eye and AoO

I understood that to be an interpretation you applied in your campaign... nothing on p78 covers Spot or Listen checks for anything other than being aware of the presence or exact location of an invisible creature.

I was under the impression that the Sage's answer to "Do invisible creatures provoke AoOs?" was "Yes.", although I admit I don't have a reference for that.

Do you have concrete evidence of your statements, or is it simply your interpretation of p78?

-Hyp.

It's not "simply" my interpretation, it's pretty clearly stated that you need to make a spot or listen check to target an invisible opponent.

Are you saying that you can attack an opponent you are not currently aware of?

If so, please give a concrete evidence of this interpretation.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Quicker than the Eye and AoO

It's not "simply" my interpretation, it's pretty clearly stated that you need to make a spot or listen check to target an invisible opponent.

To pinpoint, yes, although you can choose a square randomly and attack.

Are you saying that you can attack an opponent you are not currently aware of?

No. But if the improved invisible rogue hit you last round, you know he's 'around'. If he provokes an AoO in your threatened area, nothing on p78 says you need to make a check to take that AoO.

You need to choose the correct square and take the 50% miss chance, but making a Listen check to tell he's drinking a potion is not covered.

-Hyp.

 

[Caliban]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Quicker than the Eye and AoO

To pinpoint, yes, although you can choose a square randomly and attack.

Not just to pinpoint. You need to make a listen check to hear them first.

If you fail it, you don't know where they are.
If you make it, you know their general direction.
If you make it by 20, then you pinpoint them.

No. But if the improved invisible rogue hit you last round, you know he's 'around'. If he provokes an AoO in your threatened area, nothing on p78 says you need to make a check to take that AoO.

You need to choose the correct square and take the 50% miss chance, but making a Listen check to tell he's drinking a potion is not covered.

-Hyp.

And how do you know he did something that provoked an AoO?

Please give concrete evidence that supports your interpretation that PC's can automatically attempt an AoO against actions they neither see nor hear taking place.

(Although I will grant that in most circumstances, the DC to hear someone remove a bottle from their pack/belt, uncork, it and then drink it would be pretty low, even if they were attempting to do it quietly. Maybe a DC 5? And I'm not sure if Move Silently would really help.)

And aside from that, the Quicker than the Eye feat is supposed to represent you distracting your opponent for a moment. You trick them into taking their attention off of you.

 

[hong]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Quicker than the Eye and AoO

Not just to pinpoint. You need to make a listen check to hear them first.

If you fail it, you don't know where they are.
If you make it, you know their general direction.
If you make it by 20, then you pinpoint them.

... and after you've noticed they're there, you can attack them. Presumably if you know they're there, you can still attack them on subsequent rounds, including with AoOs. Unless your intention is to make the attacker make Spot/Listen checks _every round_ to attack someone who's invisible?

And how do you know he did something that provoked an AoO?

You don't have to know anything. The point of AoOs is that the defender drops their guard, and so is less able to defend against the attacker's regular attacks over the course of six seconds. It's not that the attacker gets any special attacks (although the mechanics play out that way).

Please give concrete evidence that supports your interpretation that PC's can automatically attempt an AoO against actions they neither see nor hear taking place.

Spell-like abilities, which have no V, S, or M components, still trigger AoOs.

 

[Caliban]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Quicker than the Eye and AoO

... and after you've noticed they're there, you can attack them. Presumably if you know they're there, you can still attack them on subsequent rounds, including with AoOs. Unless your intention is to make the attacker make Spot/Listen checks _every round_ to attack someone who's invisible?

If they move after attacking you, then yes you will have to make a spot or listen check every round. You can just attack the last square you were attacked from if you want, but after the first round or so you will probably miss automatically.

I don't see where it presumes that you can automatically make AoO's against someone you can't see and you don't hear.

You don't have to know anything.

Yes you do.

The point of AoOs is that the defender drops their guard, and so is less able to defend against the attacker's regular attacks over the course of six seconds. It's not that the attacker gets any special attacks (although the mechanics play out that way).

Where exactly does it state this? I agree that an AoO is a defender dropping their guard, but where does it state that you are making constant attacks against them that always miss, except when an AoO is provoked?

If they are invisible and have moved, have you been blindly hacking at every square around you for 6 seconds and hoping to get lucky?

When you aren't facing an invisible opponent, you can see when they drop their guard (i.e. perform an action that provokes an AoO). That's when you attack them.

Spell-like abilities, which have no V, S, or M components, still trigger AoOs.

You still see them dropping their guard as they activate the ability. If they are invisible, and you don't make a listen/spot check, you don't know they activated an ability.

And this still doesn't have anything to do with the original question.