D&D General [+] Racially-Discriminating Afterlife Systems

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

The title of the thread is pretty self-explanatory, but I should probably explain this thread a bit more. This thread is to discuss Afterlife-Systems of the various D&D worlds, particularly those that discriminate based on your race. For example, as of 5e's canon, in the Forgotten Realms, Elves reincarnate after dying, being temporarily sent back to Arvandor until one of the elven deities (I forget which one in particular) decides to send them back to Toril in a new elven form. The idea of different afterlife systems like this has always seemed an interesting idea to me, but they always put me off a bit. Orcs and Goblinoids go to Acheron and have to fight and endless war after they die, Gnoll souls presumably go to the Abyss, Dwarven souls go to Arcadia, and so on.

My main issue with this is, you know, the fact that the gods are so discriminatory in their afterlives. This could be fixed simply, by having a non-elf worshipper of Corellon or some other elven deity be "adopted" into their afterlife system as an "honorary elf", or similar situations for the different deities and their afterlife systems, but this still doesn't feel satisfying to me. I'm more inclined towards afterlife systems that don't discriminate based on race in any way, but more take anyone whose lives corresponded to the different planes of existence (a good person could go to a good plane of existence, a bad person would go to the Abyss, Hades, Gehanna, or Nine Hells, completely based off of their deeds instead of their race).

What do you think? Any suggestions to help would be nice.

(Disclaimer: This thread isn't for debate, it's for positive, constructive discussion. My opinion on not liking racially-discriminating afterlife systems will remain the same whether or not you argue. If you do argue, you will be reported for trying to derail the thread.)

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

I may be wrong, but at least in FR, gods can claim the soul of of their believers after death, no mater the race (IIRC?).

 

[Charlaquin]

I think it makes sense, in a setting like Forgotten Realms where the various races were directly created by specific deities, often for specific purposes that these gods would want the souls of their people to go to their domains after the mortal shell dies. I personally prefer settings where the gods aren’t so directly involved in mortal affairs, but I think if you’ve got gods making races, it makes sense for those gods to have a say in what happens to the people of those races after death.

 

[billd91]

I think in a case like this, you can have both in the sense that you can have different afterlife structures by race (because mythologies like that contribute to the distinctness of the various cultures) and still have the variety of individuals going wherever their religion in life shuffles them. All you need to do is recognize that the vast bulk of NPCs from the respective races with their own afterlives will simply adhere to the religions indigenous to their cultures and will follow those paths after they die, while individuals (as many as you need plus any PCs) will go to the afterlives based on the gods whose worship they followed most closely.

 

[TheSword]

I think it’s important to remember the afterlife systems are chosen by the gods, not by the race itself. There are several realms that vary based on the alignment of the god. There is at least one Dwarf Gods domain in the Outlands for instance (though I forget which one, might be Durmathoin)

An elf who behaves wickedly, makes pacts with devils and generally behaves in a lawful evil way is going to the Nine Hells, irrespective of Arvandor. You can definitely have exceptions to the general rules.

It sounds like you think Archeron is a punishment, but for followers of Grumsh or Maglubiet it is a glorious reward. Just like Valhalla was for Vikings. A drow raised in the glory of Lolth wants to go to the Demonweb - presumably with their faith rewarded with power over their peers.

Focussing on the worship of gods would be my suggestion. You could certainly have a blessed Friend to Elvenkind reach Arvandor. I would make this the exception rather than the rule though. It sounds like a pretty cool character hook.

If you’re playing in a FR where you want to remove the Wall of the Faithless, for all the reasons discussed in other threads, then it’s easy enough to have folks go to the plane that best suits their temperament.

 

[ninjayeti]

It depends on rituals, not race. If the elf priests consecrate your body your spirit can be reborn. They usually only do that for elves, but could do it for other races if they chose to. Conversely, if the Norse priests think you have dishonored yourself in battle they don't give you a proper funeral and you can't get into Valhalla. Religions IRL have exerted power through the threat of excommunication and cultures have placed great importance on funeral rites for getting into the afterlife - this would justify those beliefs.

 

[Scribe]

If you’re playing in a FR where you want to remove the Wall of the Faithless, for all the reasons discussed in other threads, then it’s easy enough to have folks go to the plane that best suits their temperament.

Wall of the Faithless was Errata dropped from Sword Coast book. I dont think its even a thing anymore.

 

[aco175]

Wouldn't you play in another world where that cannon is different? I'm sure that Greyhawk or Dark Sun has other thoughts on the afterlife.

I'm also thinking of 3e where there was only several gods in the PHB and all the races worshiped them. If all the races worshipped only some gods, then race would not matter. Maybe each race sees the god as one of them or a particular side of the god. Perhaps the Sun god is seen by elves more from a nature side and the dwarves see him from a fire/forge side. They can even call him a separate name, but is the same god. This allows the gods to decide what happens to any race that worships them.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

If I am feeling dark, all souls get chopped up into 9 pieces (based on what you did in life) and distributed to the 9 main afterlives (Mt. Celestia, Elysium, Arborea, Limbo, the Abyss, the Grey Waste, 9 Hells, Mechanus, and the Outlands). Really big pieces become powerful outsiders, but most (like 99% of) outsider are made up of little bits of a bunch of souls that just spontaneously fuse together (often because of some event on the material plane). The gods and powers are trying to encourage people/elves/orcs/etc. to act certain ways (in order to get more big pieces), and for marketing purposes some outsiders look like people/elves/orcs/etc.

Where two realms meet, there is a transition zone (Archeron between the 9 Hells and Mechanus for example) where material from one realm mixes with material from another realm. Gods, in particular, like to hang out in these zones, since they are easily shaped by deities and you don't have to compete with demon lords, empyreals, or large bureaucracies.

 

[TheSword]

Wall of the Faithless was Errata dropped from Sword Coast book. I dont think its even a thing anymore.

It’s mention was removed from SCAG but it’s a well known piece of FR lore across several editions with pdf products. So it’s a thing if people want it to be a thing. I suspect WOC just didn’t want an argument.

That said, it’s easy to ignore if people don’t like the idea of it.