Rain of steel - too powerful?

[PHGraves]

Rain of Steel is not the OA. The verbage is there so that RoS cannot fire off if the fighter isn't able to use OA via conditions (Petrified, Stunned, etc).

Your example would have the fighter stop them with Combat Superiority (dealing 1d10+7), hit them with RoS when they start their turn (1d10+4), then OA (1d10+7) when they try to move, locking them down again if it hits. Luckily, the target in question can now use another action to move away, exempt from OA.

 

[kouk]

It's a pretty awesome power, but if the enemies are tough with lots of HP, they can afford to stand and take it for awhile and continue trading blows.

However, if the enemies just get ahold of some ranged or reach weapons, or have their own Soldier-type who can shut down the Fighter's movement, EDIT: or split up, it turns into essentially a 1-target effect.

 

[Gort]

I think your ranger and rogue were doing something wrong if the fighter was outstripping them in damage.

The fighters got around a 50% chance of landing his regular attack, then add his automatic damage.

The ranger should be burning up his encounter powers, with a 50% chance per attack for each of two full strength attacks per round for the first 2 rounds of combat, plus his quarry damage. Then he's got his daily attack that does 5W + 2 x bonuses, again plus his quarry damage. After that, he's restricted to two attacks minus attribute per round, plus quarry. And most of this he's doing every single combat, not just when he burns a daily.

The rogue should have a significantly higher chance to hit (because he can target reflex), and is doing 2[w] attacks for the first two rounds, plus his sneak attack, then a daily like deep cut, plus sneak attack again.

Not really sure why you're comparing a fighter who has used one daily and then just uses at-wills constantly with a ranger who is using every encounter and daily power he has. What about the fighter's encounter powers? Plus, Rain of Steel lets the fighter do a lot more damage than the ranger because he can attack multiple targets with it. It really isn't all that hard to find two (or more) enemies to stand near in almost all encounters. (bar solos, but the extra length of solo encounters gives Rain of Steel even more effect)

 

[Gort]

Some dailies are rather crazy in damage, but since they are only doing damage, they should be.

I think this sentiment misses the point somewhat. In any fight of decent length or against multiple foes (pretty much all fights, then), Rain of Steel outdamages every other fighter daily at the same level by a factor of about 10.

Saying, "Oh, it's only damage", is missing the point. Was "Cascade of Blows" a balanced power because it was "only doing damage"?

 

[Saeviomagy]

Not really sure why you're comparing a fighter who has used one daily and then just uses at-wills constantly with a ranger who is using every encounter and daily power he has. What about the fighter's encounter powers? Plus, Rain of Steel lets the fighter do a lot more damage than the ranger because he can attack multiple targets with it. It really isn't all that hard to find two (or more) enemies to stand near in almost all encounters. (bar solos, but the extra length of solo encounters gives Rain of Steel even more effect)

True - the fighter can get 2[w] out of his encounter powers. That makes everyone draw about even. Additionally he can potentially hit multiple foes with rain of steel.

The ranger and rogue are using the same number of dailies as the fighter. They also wait until the third round of combat to blow their daily: the fighter has to blow his on the first round to keep up.

 

[brehobit]

Or, arguably, can't be forced into the flames at all...

-Hyp.

Could you explain that?

 

[eamon]

I think this sentiment misses the point somewhat. In any fight of decent length or against multiple foes (pretty much all fights, then), Rain of Steel outdamages every other fighter daily at the same level by a factor of about 10.

Saying, "Oh, it's only damage", is missing the point. Was "Cascade of Blows" a balanced power because it was "only doing damage"?

If you're adjacent to around three opponents, sweeping blow easily outdamages rain of blows, if the enemies are heavily armored, and you're not wielding a spear, a flail, or a light blade, or you don't have 15 Dexterity, sweeping blow might even outdamage rain of blows vs. a single target. It also multi-marks. Dance of steel immobilizes, and deals only slightly less damage if you have a heavy blade.

At the moment anyhow, spears and flails aren't very attractive, and light blades are downright terrible. If you're a fighter focussing on dealing a lot of damage, you'll have difficulty satisfying the prerequisites for rain of blows. Rain of blows is powerful, but barring some new splatbook, currently it comes at a serious cost to use, since it's prerequisites are high - and without those prerequisites it's merely OK, and not particularly powerful.

 

[SSquirrel]

Pushing requires line of sight. Wall of Fire blocks line of sight. You couldn't push them THRU the wall, but you could most certainly push them into the square the wall occupies, which sets them up for automatic damage next turn.

 

[Plane Sailing]

If you're adjacent to around three opponents, sweeping blow easily outdamages rain of blows, if the enemies are heavily armored, and you're not wielding a spear, a flail, or a light blade, or you don't have 15 Dexterity, sweeping blow might even outdamage rain of blows vs. a single target. It also multi-marks. Dance of steel immobilizes, and deals only slightly less damage if you have a heavy blade.

Are you mixing up rain of steel with rain of blows, by any chance?

 

[Plane Sailing]

Honestly, I don't have a problem with it because it essentially makes him a vulnerable version of the 1st level Wizard daily Flaming Sphere.

Consider also the warlock 1st level daily Armour of Agythys - another encounter-long power which kills adjacent minions.