D&D (2024) Ranger playtest discussion

[Ruin Explorer]

Katniss took Prodigy/Skilled Expert (as a variant human) and the Ambush maneuver (as a Battlemaster).

So d20+Wis+PBX2 on Survival Checks and d20+Dex+PB+d8 on Stealth Checks.

Done.

Good god, this is some truly profound internet point-missing during attempted point-scoring.

I've explained this a lot of time now, so nothing is to be gained explaining it again, but "WHOOSH" right over your head.

 

[Haplo781]

Indeed.

I also grew up on Arthurian myth. Galahad's strength was as the strength of ten because his heart was pure. Not because he woke up every day. looked in his spellbook, and cast Giant's Strength. When The Green Knight let his head be cut off and put it back it wasn't because he was using an anti-decapitation spell or a death ward. It was because he was who he was.

I also grew up on Greek myth. When Hercules tagged out Atlas and literally held up the world on his shoulders it wasn't because he cast either a super-strength spell or cast Telekinesis on the World. When he cleaned the Augean Stables by rerouting two rivers he didn't reroute them by casting Control Water. And yes he was a demigod - but so was Circe. If demigods aren't allowed for inspiration we should cut the wizards back to realistic inspirations as well.

I just don't get the desire to turn the back on D&D's inspirations and declare that anything going above and beyond the norm must be a spell.

It's the height of irony when people dismiss Heracles and Cu Chulainn because demigod when the main inspiration for wizards are Merlin and Gandalf...

 

[fuindordm]

My perspective on mundane extraordinary abilities is quite simple.
If the Ranger casts hunter's mark, it is an explicitly magical ability that is functionally identical to other spells. The effect can be dispelled, the casting can be interrupted, etc. etc. The Ranger has learned how to cast magic--you can't just hand-wave it as extraordinary skill because mechanically it is not.
If the Ranger has a class ability with benefits similar to hunter's mark, then the class is free to define it as a non-magical, skill-based, ability. It can"t be dispelled, and it doesn't interact with any other ability that affects or restricts magic.
I would prefer D&D to have MORE options for extraordinary mundane characters, not fewer.
I would prefer D&D to have MORE variety in the way class powers are constructed and balanced, not fewer.
I don't think forcing abilities into the spell system makes them any easier or harder to balance against other abilities.
Making most class abilities default to their equivalent spell, and giving most classes spell slots, sacrifices interesting play, immersion, and campaign options for the sake of mechanical 'simplicity', as if WotC are terrified of having players learn new rules for new classes.

I'm quite happy with mundane abilities being limited use, X/day or X/encounter, or drawing from a pool like the battlemaster. I am very frustrated with the tendency to grant almost every class spells by default.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I get it. I too would like all the benefits of spellcasting without having to worry about verbal and somatic components, costly material components, anti-magic, magic resistance, dispel magic, counterspell, spell slots, loss of concentration, etc.

This is a truly ghastly response and indicates that you do not, in fact, get it, and indeed are in fact, about one step away from actual trolling. Certainly you're making either an accusation of bad faith, or an argument in bad faith. You pick.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

It's the height of irony when people dismiss Heracles and Cu Chulainn because demigod when the main inspiration for wizards are Merlin and Gandalf...

It is truly astonishing how many people forget Gandalf is a Maiar, and that's where his magic comes from.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

It is truly astonishing how many people forget Gandalf is a Maiar, and that's where his magic comes from.

Gandalf and Saruman are Celestials, Merlin is a Cambion, Circe and Medea are descended from Helios, Morgan Le Fay is a faerie queen, most mages in Norse Mythology are gods/giants. I could go on.

The amount of people that say "Martial characters shouldn't be powerful like Hercules and Cu Chulainn because those warriors were demigods!" while ignoring the fact that a ton of popular wizards/enchanters from mythology also had similar divine origins truly baffles me.

 

[James Gasik]

It is truly astonishing how many people forget Gandalf is a Maiar, and that's where his magic comes from.

What I find so odd about this is, just about any time his name is brought up in a thread, the fact that he's basically an angel/demigod is almost immediately added to the discussion.

And yet, he's held up as an archetypical Wizard, along with that Tiefling, Merlin...

 

[Ruin Explorer]

What I find so odd about this is, just about any time his name is brought up in a thread, the fact that he's basically an angel/demigod is almost immediately added to the discussion.

And yet, he's held up as an archetypical Wizard, along with that Tiefling, Merlin...

Yeah, it's like, people know, but for some reason it's totally okay for Gandalf or Merlin to be a non-human being who draws power from that, but not, like Herakles. That's right out. That's cheating!

Also man the amount of Ged/Sparrowhawk erasure from D&D players is nuts. Far more of an actual Wizard than either of those two jerks!

It's at times like these you understand very well why Earthdawn, attempting to "fix" D&D (quite successfully if it wasn't for their system being a huge mess of dice), gave all the classes a universal power-origin.

 

[James Gasik]

Yeah, it's like, people know, but for some reason it's totally okay for Gandalf or Merlin to be a non-human being who draws power from that, but not, like Herakles. That's right out. That's cheating!

Also man the amount of Ged/Sparrowhawk erasure from D&D players is nuts. Far more of an actual Wizard than either of those two jerks!

Yeah, there's lots of actual examples of Wizards out there, like Belgarath, Skeeve, Grey Star, Lythande, or even that Dumbledore guy!

 

[Haplo781]

Yeah, there's lots of actual examples of Wizards out there, like Belgarath, Skeeve, Grey Star, Lythande, or even that Dumbledore guy!

Weird how despite HP being a global phenomenon there hasn't been anyone clamoring to make wizards play like that.

Oh right, because HP wizards are actually not that strong.