Ranger & TWF vs. Archery Powers

[Regicide]

Whatever you do don't go overboard as longbows are quite powerful in this game.

I thought the inability to do precision damage with them, and the invisible wall at 200 feet made them somewhat pitiful.

It's the ranger's powers that powerful.

 

[dacman1]

wonderful compromise:
TWF ranger with scimitar(or whatever melee) in one hand and hand crossbow (or whatever 1hand ranged) in the other. + Quickdraw feat
crossbow for all the ranged powers and for minions and quickdraw scimitar to use melee powers.

just a thought

 

[BASHMAN]

Just do levels 1-10 as TWF then at level 11 "retrain" that you were an archery ranger all along and take the Battlefield Archer path. Win Win.

 

[Deverash]

Just do levels 1-10 as TWF then at level 11 "retrain" that you were an archery ranger all along and take the Battlefield Archer path. Win Win.

Well, retraining is only feats, powers, and skills. You can't retrain class features or ability scores.

 

[Thanee]

It's a really dumb feat for a character who will be doing their level best to stay at range, and TWF gives a massive benefit plus a really good feat.

It's not a great feat, but also not a really dumb feat. If an opponent moves next to you, you may want to move away, which will provoke an AoO.

Also, what's that massive benefit you are speaking of?

As far as I can see, pretty much all the ranger powers either allow to shoot a single bow twice or attack with both melee weapons once each.

That's a massive benefit for the bow (think magic items!).

Bye
Thanee

 

[Mistwell]

Playing an archer ranger is essentially gambling that the campaign will hit Paragon tier.

It's only slightly better, not massively better. If you have no intention of dual-wielding melee weapons, it's not much of a gamble.

Although I also suspect a simple mistake, with errata to come. Or that people are overlooking something. Maybe Defensive Mobility is better than it looks...?

I think it's as good as toughness, and if prime shot were attached directly to the archery path instead of being listed as a separate power, they would be about equal.

 

[Mistwell]

Personally, I think the simplest solution is to restrict Prime Shot to rangers that take the archery path.

a'yup,

My next thought is maybe to increase the Prime Shot bonus to +2 when attacking your Quarry (+1 in other circumstances, although, if the closest target isn't already your quarry, the ranger would normally designate the target as such before taking the shot). That, IMO, would make the archery path a no-brainer for a character that was serious about being an archer. It may be a little too powerful that way, though.

Naw. You don't need more of a boost. Just adding Prime Shot to the archery selection would be enough in my opinion.

 

[Zurai]

I thought the inability to do precision damage with them, and the invisible wall at 200 feet made them somewhat pitiful.

Precision damage? What precision damage?
And an invisible wall at 200 feet is dramatically better than an invisible wall at 50-100 feet like most other ranged weapons.

 

[Kaffis]

Still missing the point.

The point is this: Let's say you have decided to play a ranger who shoots a bow. You have your choice of the Archery path and the TWF path. What people are saying is that the TWF "path" - that is, the mechanical package including Toughness and improved dual wielding - is superior even if you intend to shoot a bow all the time and hardly ever get into melee.

No, I'm not. Re-read your italicized bit. Now tell me why you care what your offhand weapon is. And if you don't care, how is the TWF path superior for your character?

Unless you honestly anticipate dropping your bow, using a minor action to draw your melee weapons (and provoke? I forget) and attacking with TWF, rather than simply shifting back a square and firing two shots with your longbow.

 

[Kaldaen]

Personally, I think the simplest solution is to restrict Prime Shot to rangers that take the archery path. A genuine TWF ranger doesn't really need Prime Shot, so I've got no problems preventing them from taking it. I do wonder if it's a significant enough ability to make TWF look less attractive, though. My next thought is maybe to increase the Prime Shot bonus to +2 when attacking your Quarry (+1 in other circumstances, although, if the closest target isn't already your quarry, the ranger would normally designate the target as such before taking the shot). That, IMO, would make the archery path a no-brainer for a character that was serious about being an archer. It may be a little too powerful that way, though.

I disagree. I don't think Prime Shot is useful enough to Archery Rangers to be their "unique class feature." It requires that you be closer to your target than any of your allies, which likely won't be the case after the first round or so. For a true archer, who hangs back and deals artillery damage while the defenders jump into the fray, this ability will be useless for most of the encounter.

A better ability would be a +1 bonus to ranged attacks with any weapon with which the Ranger is proficient. This way, Archery-focused Rangers are getting an overall +3 on attacks with bows and crossbows, demonstrating that they can fire their favored weapons with greater accuracy than a Fighter or a Rogue.