D&D 5E Rangers in 5e

Minigiant

Legend
Supporter

Favored Terrain: The Ranger is top warrior in their environment of origin, whatever the Player chooses that to be. Examples include (but are not limited to) Woodlands, Marshlands, Desert, Arctic/Tundra, Urban, etc...
This choice triggers a few things for the Ranger.

  1. The Ranger receives a +2 applied toward skills/ability checks that are appropriate for their Favored Terrain (Swimming or Sailing for a ranger from the Coast, for example).
  2. Similarly, the Ranger knows how to maneuver particularly well in their chosen environment. All Rangers gain a +1 to their Attack rolls while fighting within their Favored Terrain.
  3. The Ranger gains an additional +1 to their Tracking rolls if in their Favored Terrain. They receive an additional +1 if what they are tracking is one of their selected Favored Quarry.
  4. Rangers receive a +2 bonus to all Stealth checks while within their Favored Terrain.
  5. The Ranger is able to select 2 types of creatures that were prevalent or recurring threats in their Favored Terrain. These creatures are the Ranger's "Favored Quarry". They are the greatest recurring and infamous threats to her lands and she has spent much time hunting and/or learning to fight them before setting off on the Adventurer's path. The Ranger gains a +2 to all damage rolls, regardless of weapon, against them. Examples/guidelines: A Ranger of Woodland Terrain might choose Orcs and Owlbears. A Ranger who favors/is from Mountain Terrain might choose Goblins and Ogres. A Ranger with Swamp Terrain favored might choose Lizardmen and Black Dragons.
Natural Healing: All Rangers are very knowledgeable about the flora and fauna and are able to gather natural materials (plants, fungi, animal parts or fluids) to assist in Healing and first aid for her allies. With these materials available (either on the Ranger's person or able to be found in the immediate area), the Ranger is able to apply ONE additional HD (of the person being healed, not the Ranger's HD) during a long rest. Having or finding these materials should be assumed to be 100% while in the Ranger's Favored Terrain. Other terrains might require some searching (DM's call.).


Those abilities are too specific and have the same flaws of Rangers of the past. Favored Enemy/Environment works for only in the area or on the target chosen, forcing the DM to constantly use that enemy/environment. Even if the DM tell them of what the best choice is ahead of time, they are stuck with it.

A better way is to make the bonuses more broadly usable.

Forest Ranger
Can apply his Hunter's Quarry to Geographical Lore, Spot, and Stealth checks.
Can craft a Healer kit for half price
Ranged attacks ignore ACC bonus for half cover.
Always consider lightly obscured in an open natural environment and heavy obscured in light obscured natural environments.

Koboldhunter Ranger
Can apply his Hunter's Quarry to Find and Remove Tracks, Intimidate, Spot checks.
Can deploy a Hunter's trap as a action
+2 Ac when being attacked by more than 2 enemies
Can make one attack with a finesse weapon when making a Dodge action
 

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Greg K

Legend
I prefer my rangers as light and medium armored (in 5e terms) non-spell casting warrior survivalists/trackers/hunters. While most most would be wilderness based, I want to keep it open for 3e's urban ranger.

I also want an option for spell casting rangers. However, for such an option, I want spell casting available at first level rather than having to wait until 4th level, 9th level or whatever.
 

Sadrik

First Post
I also want an option for spell casting rangers. However, for such an option, I want spell casting available at first level rather than having to wait until 4th level, 9th level or whatever.

This is where I say if you want some spell casting MULTICLASS then!!! Plese make no gish base classes. Focus on developing well thought out multiclassing rules.
 

Greg K

Legend
This is where I say if you want some spell casting MULTICLASS then!!! Plese make no gish base classes. Focus on developing well thought out multiclassing rules.

I don't want to rely on multiclassing. I don't like requiring my players to hoop jump for viable concepts for a campaign. I think the spell casting ranger is a viable option despite my preference for non-spell casting rangers as default. Keyword being *option* much like how a somewhat common 3e house rules involved rangers giving up spell casting for bonus feats (which became an official option in Complete Champion).

Despite that, we are pretty much in agreement. As I wrote in the PAX thread:

The lightly armored stealthy survivalist warrior. Backgrounds and specialties should allow creation of the following
a. A lightly armored archer leading a rebellion from the forest (Robin Hood, himself, would, probably, be a Fighter with archery style and Survival skills since he was a nobleman trained in heavy armor and served in the Crusades before returning home) (Edit: the nobleman Robin Hood that served in the Crusades may have it's origin in a later telling from the 16th Century. Therefore, the light armored version would be appropriate for other versions)
b. A lightly armored outdoorsman/tracker living on the edges of civilized society. With an animal companion, one might have something along the lines of Grizzly Adams. Without an animal companion, one might have a character along the lines of Daniel Boone, Davy Crockett or even Lewis and Clark.
c. A non-raging lightly armored tribal warrior fighting with two weapons (see the movie Last of the Mohicans)
d. A sword and shield warrior working patrolling the borderlands as part of an organization protecting civilized society from humanoids or monsters
e. A two handed sword wielding beastmaster ( Beastmaster TV series or movie with various critter companions)
f. A military scout
g. an urban based ranger (see 3.0 Masters of the Wild, 3.5 Unearthed Arcana, 3.5 Cityscape Web Enhancement 1).
 

Sadrik

First Post
I don't want to rely on multiclassing. I don't like requiring my players to hoop jump for viable concepts for a campaign.

It does not have to be a hoop if the rules are written in a way where multiclassing is not an after thought...
 

steeldragons

Steeliest of the dragons
Epic
Those abilities are too specific and have the same flaws of Rangers of the past. Favored Enemy/Environment works for only in the area or on the target chosen,

Obviously. That's why they are "Favored". They are the things the Ranger has the most direct experience with.

forcing the DM to constantly use that enemy/environment.

First, that's just a ridiculous statement. It doesn't "force" the DM to do anything. Nothing in D&D "forces" the DM or players to do ANything.

Any player who just makes up their Ranger without finding out A) What kind of terrain they'll be playing in, primarily...or at least starting in and B) what kind of creatures are common to that terrain/setting is either being foolish/naive or choosing to play an "outsider" on purpose
"The road-hardened looking ranger from the far off wilderness stalks his way into the tavern. His reasons his own. A scruffy beard of reddish blond hair hugs his jaw and chin belaying his origin as a member of the south-men tribes, immediately in obvious contrast to the dark browns and black haired heads of the locals..."
...which is totally fine, of course and walks in [to the campaign], eyes open, with the knowledge that he has traveled out of his "home environment" to this other land...where his skills MAY apply sometimes against certain foes, but not all of the time. What's wrong with that?

Every once in a while, the party happens to be somewhere where the Fighter, Rogue and Paladin are left awestruck watching the normally quiet Ranger standing in the midst of battefield of slain enemies as he yanks his spear out of the last to fall. The ranger looks at the party and says, "What?! Never had to kill a hobgoblin before?"

Even if the DM tell them of what the best choice is ahead of time, they are stuck with it.

So, is the issue that they only get this 1 terrain? and, in the case of my completely hypothetical list of abilities, 2 favored enemies? We can fix that.

I wouldn't really have a problem if a feature of the class were that you could gain additional favored terrains and all of the bells and whistles that comes with it (Personally, I very much like the idea of having the favored enemy, attack and movement bonuses, etc...dependent on the terrain choice). But it would have to be worked out in some way that made some sense...not, "We traveled through a desert for 3 days, now I have Desert Terrain too!" or "I just fought my first drow! Now I can add dark elves to my favored enemy/quarry too!" nuh-no.

I'm not sure what would be the smoothest way to do that...by level gain and/or length of time/training in a certain area...if you come across (in the game/setting/story) a plot where you begin to encounter drow as the masterminds behind a whole scheme/story arc, and you run into them multiple times and eventually begin hunting them down into the Underdark...then, yeah, at some point in there, as DM, I could see letting you add Drow to your list.

A better way is to make the bonuses more broadly usable.

Forest Ranger
Can apply his Hunter's Quarry to Geographical Lore, Spot, and Stealth checks.
Can craft a Healer kit for half price
Ranged attacks ignore ACC bonus for half cover.
Always consider lightly obscured in an open natural environment and heavy obscured in light obscured natural environments.

Koboldhunter Ranger
Can apply his Hunter's Quarry to Find and Remove Tracks, Intimidate, Spot checks.
Can deploy a Hunter's trap as a action
+2 Ac when being attacked by more than 2 enemies
Can make one attack with a finesse weapon when making a Dodge action

"Better", as you know, is an entirely subjective term. I see nothing in your examples that is inherently "better" than what I proposed.

Making something more "broadly usable" is not really a feature to the archetype of the class, as I see it...or the archetype I was proposing as a default.

A Ranger is NOT just a "Fighter-Thief"...from the Latin "Fighter - best at fighting no matter where he goes" and "Thief - best at sneaking around in any environment". ;)

A Ranger is the best warrior there's going to be in the environment with which they have the most experience and training...which others, even from the same region, do not because they are not out in it all of the time, like the ranger is. Their fighting and hiding skills are all wrapped up in where they are coming from...what they have the experience dealing [hunting, fighting, defending from, avoiding, etc...] with.

Now, that experience changes and grows, of course, so I probably should have thought ahead and written in something that allows for gaining additional Favored Terrains as they leveled up/gained more experience in different areas of the setting. That makes sense.

Not to mention one of what you propose is simply a variant specialty, "X [Kobold]-hunter Ranger", of what I suggested. I don't love/would tweak its implementation, but yeah, that's the idea. :p
--SD
 

Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
[MENTION=92511]steeldragons[/MENTION]

Narrow favored enemies/environments do force the DM to use those enemies/environments
ven if the DM informs the player of the availability of the choices.

Even if the DM informs the player of the choices, if the character is locked in on his choices or gets few total choices; the DM is locked in too.

Player: I want to be a ranger, what are the good enemy choices.
DM: Well the first area is is forest filled with goblins, Orcs, and regular animals.
Player: Cool.

One or two adventures later, the party attempts to leave the forest. The ranger player becomes disgruntled as his ranger lacks any of the enemies or environments in the new area. The DM is forced to either deal with a severely weakened PC, allowing the ranger to gain or retrain Favored enemies on the fly, or has to drag old enemies and environments to the new area.

Dealing with specialists outside their element for long periods of time without retraining is often torture for all involved. It is as bad is sneak attack rogues in very simulationist rule sets against the undead. It is rare that you can get a player to deal with being hampered for long periods of time these days. Often they slowly get less and less interested unless the DM is very skilled.

Retraining or quick training of FE gets a 50% approval at best from D&D fans. It could work as an option but would make the basic unaltered ranger still hindered.

Which leaves many DMs locked around their ranger"s favored enemies and environment, forced to gift the ranger in another way, or having to deal with a player whose scowl grows every session. There are ways around it if the DM has the skill but the base is the above.
 

Sadrik

First Post
The ranger can be the smart (INT based) warrior. Skills and knowledge! Gobble up the warlord and the ranger and you have a pretty good class that can stand on its own.

The most important thing is that Many themes can be applied not just a guy from the forest in an organization that you may or may not like...

Themes I want to plug into the ranger:
Investigator (skilled warrior with a keen eye for details)
Bounty Hunter (tracker and lots of skills)
Military Tactician (understand environment and how to lead)
Dragon/Demon/Giant/Undead/Witch Hunter (knowledge of these beasts and how to slay them)
Assassin (humanoid hunter... Can fit here or elsewhere but a ranger would be a good one)
Van Helsing (Undead lore master with smarts and know how)
Captain of the city watch (leader who is sharp with lots of knowledge of the city and its environment)
Savage woodsman (hermit in a cabin way too far out, but knows how to survive)
Explorer (knowledge of different environments and maps and survival and how to address new cultures and their customs)
Sailor (knowledge of the sea and navigatining its waters and sea creatures and many other skills, perhaps a captain with leadership qualities)
Swashbuckler (being smart and witty never looked as good as being a ranger with a rapier and dagger)
Horseman (skilled at training animals and fighting from them) - as a side note I think every buddy should be able to have an animal companion or familiar if a caster
Aragorn (A guy in the forest in an organization)

I thought I would move my thoughts on this over to this thread. As it seems more applicable.
 

steeldragons

Steeliest of the dragons
Epic
[MENTION=63508]Minigiant[/MENTION]

I appreciate your attempt to explain your position...by elaborating that "FT/FE forcing the DM"means "it is forcing the DM" :confused:...and I'm not going to bother with an "is not/is too" tete-a-tete.

Suffice it to say, I heartily disagree with your presentation of opinions as facts of how things are and what a DM must do and how players will/do behave and react. We'll just leave it at that.

And on that last point, if it is accurate to your games, I am sorry that you have to experience and/or plan around such petulance.

--SD
 

Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
I am sorry if it seemed that I placed my opinions as facts.

My point was just to describe how narrow class features can often upset players and place additional stress on DMs. This might cause them to avoid certain experiences or constantly reuse other to boost the happiness of some players or save their own sanity. It is a miserable experience if it occurs.
 

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