(RANT) (longish) A player wishes to drop

[Mercule]

13 years isn't really very long, tell her about the 25 year gamers around here. She needs some perspective.

Indeed. _She's_ still a newbie by my standards.

Not really. I only consider someone a newbie for the first year or two. But the point is, she isn't exactly "old school", either. Hey, I've been gaming for 20 years, and I _still_ don't consider myself "old school", just reasonably well seasoned -- and if that's true, then she's of "average" experience, at best. She might want to realize that.

If she doesn't have a decent knowledge of the rules, then she isn't a "great" gamer, either. My wife has been gaming for 10-12 years now (ironically, she's considered the "junior" gamer in our group). I don't think she has ever opened up a book on her own. Sure, she's seen a couple of tables that I've shown her, etc., but I have serious doubts about whether she could find the description of the Rogue class (which she is playing) in the PH.

She's playing a Fighter/Rogue/Duelist and taking the role as our primary scout, party leader, and primary fighter, though. Despite never cracking a book _and_ being a nursing mother (talk about game distractions), she manages to be a major participant, facilitator for other PCs' involvement, and to slow down the game with rules questions a whole lot less than some of the more experienced gamers.

Okay, bragging on my wife aside, that puts what you should be able to expect from a 13 year gaming veteran into a bit better perspective. And keep in mind that my wife isn't exactly a "die hard" gamer. Regardless of what your egocentric player says about herself, unless she shows some good play, she isn't a good player.

Oh, and if she doesn't know the rules _and_ she's unaccustomed to being taken seriously when she speaks in character, I'd be interested to know what her basis of "good player" is. If it isn't knowledge of the system, and it isn't roleplay (which requires IC discussion, IMHO), I'm at a loss for what meaningful category she excels at.

I know someone rather similar to want I'm perceiving this person to be like. She goes to GenCon almost every year, has read a lot of game rules, always talks about how she met so-and-so (famous game design, comic book author, etc.) and what they had to say, and always seems to have read the rarest of gaming suppliments (although she doesn't actually own a copy), and she's been gaming forever.

Still, when you put her in a game, she's there for a couple of sessions, then loses interest and moves on to another for a while, only to demand to be let back in to the first. She makes odd rules interpretations that no one else agrees with. And she tries to dominate the game by taking center stage and telling everyone else how things work and what they should be doing. Worst of all, she is constantly interjecting stories of her past games into the session. I like sitting around and telling tales as much as any other gamer, but not _during_ the making of another tale.

Anyway, this gamer is simply not invited to game anymore. Ever. We've found not having games to be favorable to including her. Fortunately, we've got enough people in our circle that it isn't an issue most of the time.

Trust me. If your player is as nasty as she sounds, just let her go. The only thing left to decide is how to let her down easy (i.e. don't hurt her feelings). I don't have a great track record in this department and the couple of times I have had to cut someone loose, there's been some bad blood, so take my advice with a grain of salt. I believe, though, that most of the hard feelings have arisen because I tried to get them to discuss things and have an amiable split. That always ends up with one side saying how the other could do better to keep the tie together. And that degrades into justifying positions and arguments.

She's going, you want her to go. Just let it happen. Tell her you could probably have done something to make her feel more welcome and that you're sorry to see her go, but that you can appreciate that there are some serious mismatches between her style and your group's style. Wish her luck on finding a group that is a better match for her abilities. Then go recruit another player from the peanut gallery (or not, if you have enough).

 

[Piratecat]

Trust me. If your player is as nasty as she sounds, just let her go.

Actually, she doesn't sound nasty to me at all. It does sound as if your gaming styles clash, though. I agree; let her go, and don't obsess over it. I only wish she could have done this without implying an insult.

We have a similar rules-lite player in Sagiro's group. She has no interest whatsoever in learning all the rules. She's so good that no one minds helping her through the rough spots, though.

 

[WizarDru]

Some thoughts, as a DM who's had players come and go over time: decide what you want, and what's best for you, her and the game. In that order. If the issue is one of personal friendship, then worry about that first. Remember that the game and the friendship are not joined at the hip...then can and do exist separately. I have separated folks from my game while maintained their friendships.

Second, decide if it's a benefit to bring her back or not. My general experience is that a DM who worries about favoritism usually isn't actually doing it. Realize that if you make too many accomadations merely to keep a player who isn't enjoying herself, you could do a disservice to the other players, which is an equally unpleasant result. You may find that she enjoys a different style of play than you do, and that may be the source of the problem. A player who lists 'Amber diceless roleplaying' as their favorite game is not going to enjoy D&D as much as an 0ld sk00l Gygaxian gamer. Accomadating multiple playstyles is a real challenge, and often a real drain on your mental and physical resources.

I think you are handling the situation correctly. Let her air her concerns, and make sure she knows that it takes multiple folks to compromise, and that both sides need to reach an agreement. Her gaming credentials are irrelevant to the discussion. This is about the GAME. The idea is to have FUN. FOR EVERYONE. It doesn't matter if she's played for 20 years, and everyone else has played for 2....it matters who's having fun, and who's not. Quite honestly, if EGG sat down at my table, he'd have to follow the same rules as everybody else. And he made the darn game.

As DM, your main concern is the enjoyment of everyone around the table...yourself included. D&D is a social group game, not a prima donna's playhouse.

And while it's valid NOT to know the rules, one shouldn't crow about their abilities unless they do, IMHO. You may be a good actor, but a considerate player will learn all the things about their character they can, AHEAD OF THE GAME. I know my wife pours over the PHB, MotP and other books looking for new equipment, feats and the like to use with her character. Hell, that's half the fun of being a player.

Good Luck, and I hope it works out, one way or the other.

 

[BVB]

Let her go. It's not your responsibility that she be perfectly happy.

Even if you convince her to stay a while longer, sooner or later she's going to want to leave again anyway. That sort of heart-to-heart talk is merely delaying the inevitable.

Still, though, be sure to part on good terms and wish her the best of luck. You've had some good times together, you'll miss her, yada yada yada...

You'll find another player to take her place.

 

[Argent Silvermage]

An interesting perspective to this is my own experience. I was in Wizardru's games over a decade ago but was not able to play for years. when I came beck into the fold I looked like the newbie even though I was playing for more years then most of the group (going on 25 years gaming!) I still feel like the new guy in many ways. but when the players work together to make the game good it makes everyone's experiences good.

If your player has issues with the game she should find another.

 

[diaglo]

wish her luck.

from someone who has tried several groups over the past 3 years, she will need it.

not all groups play in the style that she is accustomed. that's okay.

take the advice from the old guard ( ) let her find her own way.

i think you will find your game will improve if you learn from this experience and so will hers.

 

[idum]

I have the feeling she's boring to play rpg or she has a bad period.
After 13+ years gaming experience, she's surely learned that the fun in the game exists only if there is a sort of balance in the time-to-be-at-centre-of-attenction for all players.
My experience is that, when an experienced player break off this balance, this is only 'cause she don't find in the game enough satisfactions, or if her mind is full of 'real life' business.
I suggest you to talk with her, as a friend and not as a DM. Perhaps you can find that there are undiscovered problem, a low-level moment of her life, and so on, and help she and your game in the same time.

Sorry for my english i hope this is understandable enough..

Idum

 

[King_Stannis]

Sounds like she's an attention hog, quite frankly. If you have a stable group without her, I wouldn't think twice about letting her go. You only put up with people like this if you have to - if you don't have enough players.

“Don’t us any divination, the DM will only screw you with it or make it so obscure you’ll never figure it out.”?! .......that comment alone would be enough to earn my ire.

The fewer drama queens you have in your life the less stress you'll have.

 

[Petrosian]

I have as a general rule an easy going nature.

When a player broaches a subject to me with the fact that they have decided they need to leave, I thank them, mention how i wished it was different and let them go.

when a player broaches a problem with me by bringing it up and wanting to figure out how to handle it, with no "or i leave" hanging over the discussion, then i work with them and bend over backwards.

if she had brought this up for discussion and solution before she reached the "i should leave" stage, then you should have worked with her. If she brought it up only once she had reached the " i should leave " stage, then let her go and speak kindly of her.

*********************

Xp and levels... in my games, xp is not earned and advancement is simply a means of showing progress. If your PC is away for a while, we assume he is doing things and he keeps pace. Then when you return you level up to match the party. you may even have acquired magic items.

This is because having the gang at the same level makes things much easier for everybody and keeps all the characters on par with the threats. This is not a competition to grab more xp. A significantly weaker PC can very easily be untenable if the challenges are tough.

So i do not make the occasional absebces or even the rare leaves of absence into a level issue. It seems to have worked well. But then, thats just our way of looking at it.

 

[Gnarlo]

13 years? Pshaw. I have older character sheets. My first d20 has been used so much it is a perfect sphere.

I'm old enough to have that set of dice, too; unfortunately, we can't use that as a status symbol because the sad secret is that it only took about a month of playing to round them off