D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.


Interesting video but since FTL drive is fictional in my fiction it will work any way I want. ;)

I don't think FTL is actually possible but it would likely have to involve fundamental changes to our knowledge of physics* so I'm not overly concerned about applying our understanding of physics to something that can't happen.

*There are theories of a warp drive using positive energy but it would just be a way to get to very high speeds while not actually exceeding the speed of light.
 

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From the point of view of the observer inside a spaceship (and not looking out the window) going at a significant percentage of the speed of light nothing would change. Time compresses for the person the faster they go and looking out the window you would see different wavelengths of light but nothing on the interior would look different.
To be fair, it depends on a lot of factors.

How long is your ship, for example? Depending on how fast you are accelerating, different parts of the ship will actually experience time differently. As you approach C, this gets more and more pronounced. So, the front of your ship might experience significant time dilation from the back of your ship. Things get seriously weird when you start approaching C.

Which, fair enough, most SF handwaves. Alaistair Reynolds is a fantastic hard SF writer who deals with this sort of theme all the time. Cannot recommend him enough.

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Former math teacher here. No. Math is highly applicable to crafts of various sorts. I would have been really happy of a student consistently managed to get the right answer, even if they were completely unable to show their working. I would be even more happy if they were able to show their working.

But I would consider this significantly better than the majority that are able to perfectly well show how they get to the wrong answer.

Well, yes, there are a lot of crafts that involve math and science, that's true.

But the point of testing is to prove that the student understands the concepts. If they cannot show their work, then they haven't understood the concepts. Because part of why we educate people is so that they can pass that knowledge on to someone else. Someone who can get the answer but cannot articulate how or why they got that answer is not demonstrating the skills that teachers should be imparting.

Being able to solve for X is the least important part of the lesson. But, then again, this difference in philosophy largley underpins most of this discussion doesn't it? The idea that a simulation that produces no information as to how it achieved that result is useless as a simulation. Who cares about the result? That's not the point of a simulation. "Hey, this simulation shows that our car gets 22 km to the liter. Fantastic! " "How does it do that so we can do that on other cars?" "Who knows? This simulation only applies to this specific car and can never be replicated because we have no idea how it achieved that result."

"Hey, fantastic simulation!"
 

Being able to solve for X is the least important part of the lesson. But, then again, this difference in philosophy largley underpins most of this discussion doesn't it? The idea that a simulation that produces no information as to how it achieved that result is useless as a simulation. Who cares about the result? That's not the point of a simulation. "Hey, this simulation shows that our car gets 22 km to the liter. Fantastic! " "How does it do that so we can do that on other cars?" "Who knows? This simulation only applies to this specific car and can never be replicated because we have no idea how it achieved that result."

"Hey, fantastic simulation!"
I much rather have the GM narrate an outcome that make sense to me from the top of their head, than one that make no sense, but they can show me exactly what tables they used to roll up their nonsense.
 

I made no comment whatsoever about defining them in general.

My comment was, very specifically, about defining such so thoroughly that (they claim) it is utterly impossible to add anything new, ever. The world's contents are completely fixed and (they allege) cannot, even in principle, be expanded. That degree of micromanagement of a setting is surely, I should hope, an extreme even in your eyes?
I would prefer for the DM to determine the species and cultures and major political organizations prior to play. I don't think those should be added by the players.
 


Being able to solve for X is the least important part of the lesson. But, then again, this difference in philosophy largley underpins most of this discussion doesn't it? The idea that a simulation that produces no information as to how it achieved that result is useless as a simulation. Who cares about the result? That's not the point of a simulation. "Hey, this simulation shows that our car gets 22 km to the liter. Fantastic! " "How does it do that so we can do that on other cars?" "Who knows? This simulation only applies to this specific car and can never be replicated because we have no idea how it achieved that result."
Knowing why our car gets 22 km to the liter isn't identical to "simulationist" experiences that may be sought such as immersion. I don't know why my car gets the distance it does to the liter, but that doesn't prevent me from being immersed as myself in the real world.

Accuracy of simulation is proportional to cost, and in TTRPGs simulative work must be done at prices that can be paid at the table, including the price of interpreting and enacting the game text. That text itself must first be designed and playtested at prices that can be paid by designers. You wrote that the "absence of simulationist mechanics in one aspect of the game does not mean that the game lacks any simulationist mechanics". Limits to what can be afforded make absences inevitable, and that applies too, to the depth with which each aspect is treated.

Yet if that's all true, then the presence of simulative weather mechanics should make D&D count as "simulationist" even if other aspects of the game aren't covered. Thus it seems that you have some additional principle in mind that hasn't been articulated. Knowing the temperature, precipitation and wind strength seem like "basic elements that inform the narrative" to me.

I've queried a few times where you see great differences between texts, and answers have anchored on "a Dodge/Parry roll in combat". @definiteFreakyFishGuy listed information that D&D combat mechanics provides. Omitted from their list was further information that D&D provides, such as the weapons used, types of harm, positioning and movement of combatants, inflicted conditions... and of course, dodging by any character and parrying by duelists. Those are all "basic elements that inform the narrative"... but again it seems of the wrong sort although no explanation has been given why.

@definiteFreakyFishGuy identified the problem I noted with the argument from extension, which is that it begs the question i.e. fails to show why some games fit your internal definition of "simulationist" and not others. What's needed is to do more than wave toward dodge and parry in combat. D&D has dodge and parry. Cite specific mechanics and say what subjects and experiences they serve, showing that simulative work by someone at the table isn't necessitated at any point in their implementation.
 

If you're simply inside a spaceship that happens to currently be moving at .99999c (or whatever not-quite-1 fraction you prefer) relative to some other object, you won't notice anything for exactly the same reason that you don't notice yourself twirling through space despite the fact that the Earth rotates and revolves around the Sun. There's no need to invoke relativity for that.
Cough aether
Cough coriolis
Cough centripetal
Is it just me, or is it dusty in here?
 

The speed of light is very much NOT relative to the observer. The speed of light is a universal constant. That's the POINT of the Theory of Relativity. The fact that you think that the speed of light is relative to the observer means that you really, really don't understand how the Theory of Relativity works.
I think you misread @AlViking . The constant of the light speed is as measured relative to any observer. AlViking pointed out what makes it a constant, and what this constant means.
 

I think what I am missing is a way to differentiate between the subtext being: "Cool idea! I really want to flesh this out properly!", or "Uh, I got a bad feeling little good will come out of pursuing this path, could we try so something else?" For hyperspace physics, dragon flight aerodynamics, and waiter CV, the idea was that the subtext would be the latter.
Well first, you don't need subtext. You can actively just say stuff.

"Hey, I don't know right now, so wait until our next session so I have time to figure it out."

"OK, we can play, or you can watch me do math for the next hour. Choose wisely."

"You're being pursued by enemies. Do you really want to take apart the hyperdrive and figure it out?"

"You find the owner's manual. It's somewhere north of 600 pages long, written in an 8-point font with basically no margins. Are you going to start reading it?"

Does it disrupt the flow of the game? Yeah, a bit, potentially. But let's face it, if your players are so off the plot (yours or their own) that they're actively investigating an innkeeper's hiring practices or trying to figure out how hyperspace works (and won't accept whatever explanation the setting gives), then the flow of the game is already disrupted.

And, of course, you can always improvise and then figure out how it makes sense later on.
 

Well first, you don't need subtext. You can actively just say stuff.

"Hey, I don't know right now, so wait until our next session so I have time to figure it out."

"OK, we can play, or you can watch me do math for the next hour. Choose wisely."

"You're being pursued by enemies. Do you really want to take apart the hyperdrive and figure it out?"

"You find the owner's manual. It's somewhere north of 600 pages long, written in an 8-point font with basically no margins. Are you going to start reading it?"

Does it disrupt the flow of the game? Yeah, a bit, potentially. But let's face it, if your players are so off the plot (yours or their own) that they're actively investigating an innkeeper's hiring practices or trying to figure out how hyperspace works (and won't accept whatever explanation the setting gives), then the flow of the game is already disrupted.

And, of course, you can always improvise and then figure out how it makes sense later on.
Maybe following a plot isn't the point of the game.
 

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