D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

[kermit4karate]

If someone talks to me about a problem they're having with the rules, the first thing I'll suggest (if they're sure it's a problem) is to houserule it.

It's clear that the notion of the rules being maleable and even optional, particularly with regard to D&D, makes some people fussy.

I think it's human nature to want to compare, contrast and criticize, but it's hard to nicely label and objectively critique something as intangible as D&D.

My new favorite phrase: it is what it is.

 

[Lanefan]

Armor has always been a weird one, and it is for most fantasy systems.

To me the best and really only solution that maintains speed of play is to use something like temp hit points, i.e., the big suit of metal armor absorbs X damage first.

Individual-strike damage reductuion (DR) brings with it a host of corollary problems, the biggest of which is it completely shuts down foes who, while skilled, don't do much damage with any one blow and instead do their killing as death by a thousand cuts.

Aggregate DR, e.g. this armour will absorb the first 36 total points of damage its wearer would take after which damage goes through as normal, implies the armour is falling apart after that threshold is reached and needs to be replaced. Somehow I don't think that's the intent here.

Because other systems that go further by incorporating tactical rules to distribute damage and other things like that just go too far in terms of slowing the game down, in my opinion.

Fair enough. D&D has also never had a called-shots system ("I intentionally strike at his weapon hand so he can't wield as effectively") which most of the time is fine, but corner cases where attacking and-or damaging just one part of the body makes far more in-fiction sense are frequent enough that some rules to cover them would be helpful. For example:

--- you stick your hand into the niche in the wall and the niche is a trap - take 12 points damage as it closes on your hand
--- you notice your foe is limping and want to specifically strike at the weaker leg to slow him down futrher
--- if all I can see is her foot, that's what I'm gonna shoot. Ha! 20! Take 14 points to the foot, you!

Personally, I just end up winging these through narration as DM; for example someone who just got shot in the foot for 14 points damage isn't going to be moving at full speed for a while. But some guidelines would still be handy.

D&D out of the box gets it close to right. Pretty good compromise overall. Easy math, fast gameplay (critically important but often underrated), not completely absurd in terms of probabilities and physics.

Yeah, it's good enough to be good enough - but it could always be better.

 

[Lanefan]

Then any discussion of rules is largely futile because people aren't even assuming the same rules.

Discussion of any one rule (or houserule) from one system (or house) is still worthwhile, though, as is comparing it to other rules or houserules around the same issue.

 

[kermit4karate]

Personally, I just end up winging these through narration as DM; for example someone who just got shot in the foot for 14 points damage isn't going to be moving at full speed for a while. But some guidelines would still be handy.

Yeah, it's good enough to be good enough - but it could always be better.

That's the key right there. That's the whole enchilada. It's good enough to be good enough.

It feels like a lot of folks on here would recreate all the rules of real life if they could find a print-on-demand place that could bind a million-page book.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Why would the experience be similar with different games but the same group? I didn't say every game was similar. I said that the GM and players influence the experience more than the rules do.

If you see a significant difference from system to system in how they play, that seems a largely unfalsifiable statement then.

 

[Thomas Shey]

If someone talks to me about a problem they're having with the rules, the first thing I'll suggest (if they're sure it's a problem) is to houserule it.

Which I've mentioned can be legitimate. But its not terribly useless in terms of talking about whether the element in hand is an issue in the game as a whole; this is especially true when the person talking about it is a player, not a GM, and therefor probably has limited say in what houserules are in use.

 

[kermit4karate]

Which I've mentioned can be legitimate. But its not terribly useless in terms of talking about whether the element in hand is an issue in the game as a whole; this is especially true when the person talking about it is a player, not a GM, and therefor probably has limited say in what houserules are in use.

I agree with Micah Sweet on this one. It doesn't need to be complicated. Have a problem with a rule, talk to your GM about it. Obviously the decision to create a house rule for it is theirs to make.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I agree with Micah Sweet on this one. It doesn't need to be complicated. Have a problem with a rule, talk to your GM about it. Obviously the decision to create a house rule for it is theirs to make.

And if they don't, as usual, you get stuck living with the problem or trying to find another GM. Which means the problem has stayed a problem.

 

[kermit4karate]

And if they don't, as usual, you get stuck living with the problem or trying to find another GM. Which means the problem has stayed a problem.

That's correct. I don't see the problem. What I think you're describing (correct me if I'm wrong) is the way it works. The DM has always called the shots in these kinds of games.

If you're suggesting a leaderless game system as an alternative, I don't see something like that working without someone, either an individual or a group, authorized to adjudicate decisions.

But what'd be the point? That's what the DM is for, isn't it?

 

[Micah Sweet]

And if they don't, as usual, you get stuck living with the problem or trying to find another GM. Which means the problem has stayed a problem.

That's the division of power in trad games. You talk to your GM and they help, or you step out, or you live with it. You can't make someone play the game the way you want. Not sure what solution you're looking for here.