Rapid Shot vs. Two Weapon Fighting

[SpikeyFreak]

Re: Re: Re: Rapid Shot vs. Two Weapon Fighting

Power Attack is actually counterproductive if you're already doing tons of damage, since the reduction in hit probability more than cancels out the extra damage.

Wrong. The amount of damage has nothing to do with whether or not power attack is productive.

What matters is your chance of hitting, and at high levels BAB and attack bonuses FAR out pace AC, so power attack becomes more useful, not less, at higher levels.

A min/max'ed barbarian can have a 35 str at level 20 pretty easily. With a +5 weapon, that's +11 for +31 to hit. On his first attack, which is usually a standard attack, he can usually dump a lot into the attack (10 to 15) and still have a pretty good chance of hitting. Throw in power critical and it really starts to get ugly since power attack gets multiplied on a critical.

http://solo23.abac.com/spikeyfreak -> downloads -> Melee Combat Calculator and you get plug in different power attack numbers. The amount you can put in without decreasing damage goes up as you get higher level.

--Analytical Spikey

 

[hong]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Rapid Shot vs. Two Weapon Fighting

Wrong. The amount of damage has nothing to do with whether or not power attack is productive.

Of course it does. Damage is hit probability multiplied by damage per hit, and the proportional change to damage is smaller, the greater your base damage is.

What matters is your chance of hitting, and at high levels BAB and attack bonuses FAR out pace AC, so power attack becomes more useful, not less, at higher levels.

Did I say anything about low vs high levels?

 

[SpikeyFreak]

Okay, I just read in the level thing, you're right about that.

But whether or not power attack is "counter-productive" has nothing to do with the amount of damage you are doing.

If your attack bonus is high and you power attack, your average damage will increase.

If your attack bonus is low and you power attack, your average damage will decrease.

That is true if you are using a dagger or if you are using a gargantuan mercurial greatsword.

--Illiterate Spikey

 

[Christian]

... a gargantuan mercurial greatsword.

[hijack]!!! Let's see-ignoring the Sword & Fist errata ... (Christian mumbles, counting on his fingers) ... 8d6? Is that right? Not bad, gotta get me one of those![/hijack]

 

[WaterRabbit]

Nothing wrong with that; it's a fine tactic. Until you accidentally sunder that +2 greataxe of speed that was meant for the barbarian.

True, but I would rather be power attack/mauled with subdual damage than worry about saving the weapon for our barbarian. Improved disarm helps here too if you think that the weapon is of any value.
But better to sunder it and pay to have it fixed later than die to it.

 

[Petrosian]

Consider the following...

10th level elven fighter with 18 str and 16 dex.
Feats include: focus and spec GREATAXE, focus and spec longbow or mighty longbow if your Dm considers them seperate types. PBS, PreShot, Rapid shot.

Equipment includes +1 greataxe and mighty +4 nornal bow and normal arrows.

He can choose to...

Swing with +1 great axe at +16/+11 for d12+7 each.

or

Shoot with bow for +13/+13/+8 doing d8+7 EACH out to 30'

Now, lets say we are part of a party with GMW spells around... hardly uncommon by even 9th level...

With GMW on axe we go up to +18/+13 for d12+9 each.

with GMW on bow AND arrows (two spells) we now have +19/+19/+14 for d8+13 EACH.

the cumulative effect of double stacking of feats, double stacking of bonuses and the one feat for extra attack at -2 to all...

well it seems to me that the fighter in this case SHOULD work to stay in bow shot mode as much as possible, only resorting to melee when he has no option.

 

[BeauNiddle]

and against the 1st level commoner with a tower shield?

There are many, many counters to archery but fewer against melee. Archery has a lot of benefits but it also has a lot of weaknesses.

 

[Petrosian]

More defenses against ranged... not hardly.

Either can be blocked by terrain...

with ranged you have to have terrain completely cover you.
with melee all it has to do is prevent me from moving to you.

situationally, either type of offense can be blocked by terrain or use of terrain.

YMMV