Dragongirl
First Post
I know pepper, mace and cloves are NOT native to Europe.Azure Trance said:
Rare Herbs, Spices, and Goods?
- Thread starter Azure Trance
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Azure Trance
First Post
Dragongirl said:
[in a tavern]
Adventurer: Barkeep! Can I get some pepper with these eggs?
Barkeep: Sure! It'll cost you a gold per grind. (Hands over a Pepper Grinder)
Adventurer: Gah.
Dragongirl
First Post
Hehe, actually most spices back then (not including salt) was used to disguise the near rottenness of meats usually. Unless you lived on or a near a farm, your meat could be several days old. without refrigeration.Azure Trance said:
Azure Trance
First Post
Dragongirl said:
Hehe, actually most spices back then (not including salt) was used to disguise the near rottenness of meats usually. Unless you lived on or a near a farm, your meat could be several days old. without refrigeration.
Odd, and a little disgusting. But I thought (betchya gonna correct me again on this ;D S'okay, I like learning) that's why you pickled and salted meat to preserve them (Unless you're talking about meat thats only edible days afterwards because they were preserved?); otherwise why waste expensive spices on them?
Dragongirl
First Post
Well the disguise the taste thing I swear I read somewhere before hehe. Anyway I doubt they put it on their morning eggs at the least.Azure Trance said:
Here is an interesting site :
http://www.lehigh.edu/~jahb/herbs/teen.htm:D
jgbrowning
Hero
Two timber quotes from "An economic history of medieval europe" by NJG pounds about big timber.
"The supply of building materials was often of critical importance, whether construction was in wood or stone. It was not easy to acquire the large beams required for roofing."
"timber was floated [to paris] down the rivers from Burgundy."
And from "Before the Industrial Revolution," by Carlo M. Cipolla about timber in general..
"in mountain districts, the felling of trees in communal woods was regulated, from an early date, by precise rules. In 1281, the English Cistercians established enclosures of fire years to protect the seedlings in their forests. In the same period the Statutes of the Commune of Montaguloto dell'ardinghesea, in the district of Siena, laid down that every member of the Commune inheriting a hide [an amount of land] had to plant ten trees a year. In France from the end of the 13th centurey public concern about the fate of the forest gave rise to a series of royal as well as local provisions. In 1346 king Philip IV issued and ordinance regulating the cutting of trees and the consuption of timber."
"In Lombardy the area covered with trees was reduced to less than 9 percent of the whole rural territory by 1555."
"forested area represented about 33 percent of the french territory around 1500."
"From the 12th and 13th centuries, in the mediterranean area, timber became scare and, in building, was increasing replaced by bricks, stone, and marble. But it remained practically the only fuel in use and continued to be the basic material for the making of furniture, ships, tools, and machines."
Trading timber was quite lucrative when dealing with the big logs mostly gathered from the scandinavian area and timber was still pretty valuable when not in large logs. Also there is the issue of timber ownership. There may be a forest right next to you (you being a small town of 1200 people) but the lord who owns the forest refuses to sell to you because he wants to hunt there. gah, i seem to remember reading that in england the kings controlled something like 15% of all the forests and forbade anything but hunting in them.. gods know where i read that bit, or if its actually correct..
Ah, the bad thing about responding to questions like this is that im forced to realize just how much i've left out of the book im writing...
joe b.
"The supply of building materials was often of critical importance, whether construction was in wood or stone. It was not easy to acquire the large beams required for roofing."
"timber was floated [to paris] down the rivers from Burgundy."
And from "Before the Industrial Revolution," by Carlo M. Cipolla about timber in general..
"in mountain districts, the felling of trees in communal woods was regulated, from an early date, by precise rules. In 1281, the English Cistercians established enclosures of fire years to protect the seedlings in their forests. In the same period the Statutes of the Commune of Montaguloto dell'ardinghesea, in the district of Siena, laid down that every member of the Commune inheriting a hide [an amount of land] had to plant ten trees a year. In France from the end of the 13th centurey public concern about the fate of the forest gave rise to a series of royal as well as local provisions. In 1346 king Philip IV issued and ordinance regulating the cutting of trees and the consuption of timber."
"In Lombardy the area covered with trees was reduced to less than 9 percent of the whole rural territory by 1555."
"forested area represented about 33 percent of the french territory around 1500."
"From the 12th and 13th centuries, in the mediterranean area, timber became scare and, in building, was increasing replaced by bricks, stone, and marble. But it remained practically the only fuel in use and continued to be the basic material for the making of furniture, ships, tools, and machines."
Trading timber was quite lucrative when dealing with the big logs mostly gathered from the scandinavian area and timber was still pretty valuable when not in large logs. Also there is the issue of timber ownership. There may be a forest right next to you (you being a small town of 1200 people) but the lord who owns the forest refuses to sell to you because he wants to hunt there. gah, i seem to remember reading that in england the kings controlled something like 15% of all the forests and forbade anything but hunting in them.. gods know where i read that bit, or if its actually correct..
Ah, the bad thing about responding to questions like this is that im forced to realize just how much i've left out of the book im writing...
joe b.
jgbrowning
Hero
Azure Trance said:
It was a matter of distribution. Both olives and grapes, moreso olives can only grow in a particular climate so everyone that didn't live in those climates would pay for the product. Considering that moving something by land dramatically increases cost, it was quite profitable to move wine and olive oil around.
edit: and yields were quite low as well.. about 20 gallons of wine per acre compared with a more modern 140 gallons.
joe b. <----- big nerd..
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Azure Trance
First Post
S'okay as long as you get your point across I would assume that places which did not have easy water access to it would have to be more conservative in lumber use? Can't imagine it being lugged anywhere by horse. Suppose that's why many medieval are birthed at river / ocean sites though.
I would assume that places which did not have easy water access to it would have to be more conservative in lumber use? Can't imagine it being lugged anywhere by horse. Suppose that's why many medieval are birthed at river / ocean sites though.
Dragongirl
First Post
It is also easier to move stone by water. Which reminds me of another luxury good. Marble, good marble can only be found in certain areas.Azure Trance said:S'okay as long as you get your point across
jgbrowning
Hero
yep
yeppers... !
joe b.
Azure Trance said:S'okay as long as you get your point across
yeppers... !
joe b.
